Complete CU Upgrade

[Krusshyk]

The Black Knight always triumphs!

In response to the thread, I am a bit of a fence sitter. It looks ok to me on paper, but the execution will be where it hits home for me. I do like the fact that the new and improved pikeman is a status man. I like the status effects. Hopefully, we will see them usefully implemented. Not happy about my damage being lowered though. Oh well...you win some, you lose some.

[KirtViza]

Only thing that gets me is BH is filled under TANK???!??!? WHAT? w/e I dont care it sounds good to me, no I can Use my scatter in combat and not have to worry if im screwed caused the guys got 80% to acid . Also It seems that BH is gonna get the defense we never got befor and with LS being energy you know what I will be doing soon :-D

[Hashum]

Upon further review of the document I must say it sounds better then I originally thought. Implementation will be key. I'm still not happy about the damage types being taken out or changed but it still sounds like soloing will be an option based on what this new document said.

I'm not liking the way pistoleers are headed though. I've never known any pistol to be a crowd control device. Maybe its just me.

I agree but I don't dislike what they've said about pistols. My only guess is that stuff like fan shot will change to be AoE. And I could see stopping shot as a crowd control.

I think it will be an excellent addition to bounty hunter. Although I have to say it seemed more the tank then bounty hunter did.

[E-bo Obi]

A guy runs into a crowd, waves a pistol and yells something, the crowd screams and ducks to the ground...? Policemen carry...? Crowd control?

Personally, I'm really liking the way everything is looking. I'm particularly interested in the healer aspects (duh) but it looks like they're making the Medic profession a lot more like the Novice combat professions, which I like. I can't say a ton without seeing it in play--just that I'm excited. And that all the combat stuff makes sense to me...it's just that people have to get used to it, get used to the new system, find new ways of being uber. Because people will do it.

I seem to remember this scenario in a crowd control exercise prior to a deployment to the Balkans. Guy pulls out a pistol, no one is scared because it is commonplace. I shoot him. Exercise ends with us wiping out a group of civilians. * shrug * War is hell. I wonder if me shooting someone in every scenario we were put through had anything to do with me not deploying...

Anyway. Back on topic. In the US and other western nations we are taught by the media to be afraid of guns and anyone who has one. If you look in the middle east and africa, everyone has a gn and no one fears it. In the Star Wars universe it is very similar. There are places people would run around, scream and shout when they see someone with a blaster, and then there is mos eisley.

Now a guy walks in a room with a flamethrower and lights the place up, I think that would get a reaction of chaos no matter where you are.

Pistols do not evoke that reaction and they certainly don't have the firepower to do crowd control. I think that is a Carbineer/Commando job.

[KirtViza]

A guy runs into a crowd, waves a pistol and yells something, the crowd screams and ducks to the ground...? Policemen carry...? Crowd control?

Personally, I'm really liking the way everything is looking. I'm particularly interested in the healer aspects (duh) but it looks like they're making the Medic profession a lot more like the Novice combat professions, which I like. I can't say a ton without seeing it in play--just that I'm excited. And that all the combat stuff makes sense to me...it's just that people have to get used to it, get used to the new system, find new ways of being uber. Because people will do it.

I seem to remember this scenario in a crowd control exercise prior to a deployment to the Balkans. Guy pulls out a pistol, no one is scared because it is commonplace. I shoot him. Exercise ends with us wiping out a group of civilians. * shrug * War is hell. I wonder if me shooting someone in every scenario we were put through had anything to do with me not deploying...

Anyway. Back on topic. In the US and other western nations we are taught by the media to be afraid of guns and anyone who has one. If you look in the middle east and africa, everyone has a gn and no one fears it. In the Star Wars universe it is very similar. There are places people would run around, scream and shout when they see someone with a blaster, and then there is mos eisley.

Now a guy walks in a room with a flamethrower and lights the place up, I think that would get a reaction of chaos no matter where you are.

Pistols do not evoke that reaction and they certainly don't have the firepower to do crowd control. I think that is a Carbineer/Commando job.

I have to agree there, I dont see a blaster being scary, but I think we are looking at crowd control differently then they are explaining it. I think crowd control would be say the ranger who pulls the target to you either one by one or a whole group. Another thing I just thought of after I posted, Crowd control can mean, if say DWI our doc/healer is getting attack and we cant seem to pull the argo away, here comes Keer the master pistoleer to pull it away.I think crowd control has alot to do with AI argo and who they attack so on so on

[Keer]

I've just read through all the links and I'm not scared by any of it. Some of the things that I do like or have just become familiar with from long play are going out the window. But many other things that I do like very much and am familiar with, ironically, from not playing SWG are coming to this arena.

There is a distinct challenge to all of us and, depending on personal tastes, the changes are sweet or bitter. Just for a self-perspective, my old comfort zone is going to be turned on it's head. The paradigm flip isn't going to be a walk in the park for me, even though I do like this particular park.

Grouping - personally I have a nature that looks on the building of a worthy group as part of the fun. It can be time-consuming and irritating based on the people involved, but some of my best and oldest friends in the game I met from grouping.

The dynamism of a group also appeals to my nature. Like good music, a solo singer or instrument can be fun to play or hear, but when the full symphony gets going with multiple pieces in unison it's magic.

Personal Template - Keer's Master Smuggler/Master Pistol/Master Teras Kasi. Even if the new pre-reqs kicked in without the rest of the changes, I'd have a seriously powerfully offense and defense, grouped or solo.

Now, overnight, it looks like that pre-req template will be more defensive, mitigating, and hamstringing enemies over time. Now, hard-hitting. Soon, hard to be hit or finished off.

So, many of my combat instincts will be thrown out the window to make room for learning new ones. It'll be a challenge, but I am really eager to make the best of it. It may not work out in the end, and then I'll motivate on over to something else. But until then I'm going to play these cards.

Role Play - The functions given above for the new nature of my template fits very well with my character in an RP sense. I plan to keep Master in Pistol and sacrifice 2 of my TK branches to satisfy the new pre-reqs. Keer could have been a super damage dealing TK Master for sure, but I like the image of the new "avoidance" given to TK when up close. First and foremost my toon is a silky crook. A smuggler. RP-wise I welcome the attack-sapping Pistoleer, the hard to hurt TK, and finally the delay & run of the Smuggler when the chips are finally down.

Smugglers abilities ... will be vital in dealing with high end group content.

And that doesn't hurt at all, finally.

Continuity: Teras Kasi has joined the long roster of things in the game to get the discontinuity shaft, depending on your canonical preferences. This newer version of Teras Kasi with moderate damage I can't really see in a continuity/RP sense contending with a Jedi, as they were reputed to do.

Then there's the name itself, "Steel Hands". With the re-imagining of TK it should be more like "Body of Smoke" or "Be Like Water, my friend." Hard to hit, grasp, or keep and it might just choke/drown you?? *shrug*

But, the continuity train has long been chugging from the station. It's not totally gone, there are a few cars left to jump on. But none of us can do anything about it but quit the game. It's proven that I can't do that yet. There's enough left for me, to stay right now.

I believe so far the new system looks like it will be worth playing on it's own merit. Belief isn't reality though....but curiosity is very real. :lol:

So I guess we'll all be seeing each other out there in the field, making the final call.

[Jabe Adaks]

Continuity: Teras Kasi has joined the long roster of things in the game to get the discontinuity shaft, depending on your canonical preferences. This newer version of Teras Kasi with moderate damage I can't really see in a continuity/RP sense contending with a Jedi, as they were reputed to do.

Then there's the name itself, "Steel Hands". With the re-imagining of TK it should be more like "Body of Smoke" or "Be Like Water, my friend." Hard to hit, grasp, or keep and it might just choke/drown you?? *shrug*

As far as I can tell they're going to ruin the TKA profession. Instead of nerfing TKA's they should have made it harder to acquire or put a quest system in to the TKA grind to make it like a smaller, shorter version of the village. TKA's should remain powerful and a threat to the Jedi.

Seems to me if TKA is going to get nerfed all thats going to happen is that more people are going to want to unlock Jedi and thats exactly what will happen.

Again, I really hope I am wrong. Everything on paper sounds great for other professions except for all the "tankers". To be honest I am kind of shocked they adopted that slang in to their official system. A tanker is just a guy who deals with incoming damage while everyone else fights: link

So what they're basically saying is that TKA's, pikeman and others will be low on the damage dealing side. Seems like they are trying to improve group combat but forget that people play by themselves. I am glad that this will be an improvement for most professions. But honestly if it's going to work the way I think it is, its going to kill everything I currently enjoy in SWG.

Jabe

[E-bo Obi]

It seems more and more lately that I find it hard to justify giving my opinion on anything in this game. I sit here and read the topics presented for discussion and I say to myself, "Self, what relevant information can you add to this discussion?"

Fortunately I haven't started to argue with myself yet.

The Combat upgrade will affect me in one way, I will have more points to spend elsewhere. I don't remember the last time I fought anything in this game. I have not run a mission since I was helping Kifai fight quenkers on dant for xp. So dropping it to me is really not going to change anything because I haven't been using it anyway.

It will change the way I RP my character too a minor degree but given the grand picture of how the character was completely recreated I have a little wiggle room there.

Now my opinion on the CU is that for people who are anti-powergamer like myself they will be greatly effected by the proposed changes if they have combat skills spread around. I can understand SOE wanting to balance things but I am not sure the way they are tossing in Prereq's for random stuff was the way to go. I can throw a bayonet on the end of my M-16 and be extremely effective in defending myself. That does not necessarily mean that if I lose my weapon I will be fairly proficient with my bare hands. I don't understand the logic.

But when you are king you don't have to use logic. I'll play through it just like everything else. But I know there are people out there that are going to have to work their asses off to make their characters viable again. And that is bullshit IMHO.

[Ekade]

Upon further review of the document I must say it sounds better then I originally thought. Implementation will be key. I'm still not happy about the damage types being taken out or changed but it still sounds like soloing will be an option based on what this new document said.

With the lower cost of ID, one can master Dancer, Musician, ID and Entertainer now.

*does a Lord of the Dance riverdance.*

Don't tell me you never picked up entertainer and danced around, just to see what it would look like. I know you have.

Tough guy.

[Keer]

As far as I can tell they're going to ruin the TKA profession. Instead of nerfing TKA's they should have made it harder to acquire or put a quest system in to the TKA grind to make it like a smaller, shorter version of the village. TKA's should remain powerful and a threat to the Jedi.

That idea is one that I've liked for a long time. It might put my personal desires in a bind, but for the overall "Star Warsness" of the game any profession that could contend with a Jedi Knight shouldn't be easy to get. Maybe not as hard as Jedi itself, but tough still. Master Bounty Hunter included.

Seems to me if TKA is going to get nerfed all thats going to happen is that more people are going to want to unlock Jedi and thats exactly what will happen.

I'm hoping that road will be made tougher as well in this Balance. There may not be much that can be done about the current numbers, but future Jedi numbers need to be limited.

Everything on paper sounds great for other professions except for all the "tankers". To be honest I am kind of shocked they adopted that slang in to their official system. A tanker is just a guy who deals with incoming damage while everyone else fights.

There is an "art" to being a tank. This depends on a couple things, though. The temperment of the person playing it and the niche that game developers have made in the play environment for that role. Those are big "Ifs" but if done well enough the tank player can be a respectable solo force and support a group without being bored out of his mind.

Seems like they are trying to improve group combat but forget that people play by themselves.

Despite my fondness of group battle, this is a worry for me on the horizon too. Any suffering playerbase segment with a legitimate gripe doesn't sit well with me. But, I've seen it done outside where solo players in a game leaning toward group play can still have fun and be challenged.

Again, much of this is going to ride on the devs' shoulders to make the Environment respond to the new balance. More info's coming and the final info of actual live play.

Another thing. I mentioned before that one of the hard things for all players to get used to is not being able to do the same things solo & unbuffed that we were able to do with those very same professions in the past. For those considerations, there definitely will be a brake applied to some people's pace. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just more realistic in terms of what one non-Jedi toon can/should be able to do.

[Ekade]

Bleh...

The new definition of Fencer totally flies against my character concept.

The old Fencer was a master of defense and avoiding attacks. Quick and graceful. A Dancer with a blade. My attacks were not strong, but I could live with that because people had a hard time hitting me. It was a perfect fit for Ekade.

The new fencer is a damage dealer with weak defenses. So my Master Dancer +7 defense bonus will probably be useless, as will my 4 boxed in FS Melee Defense.

Frankly I feel that they forgot all about "Fencer" when they were dreaming this up, and then said.. "oh crap, where should we put them? ahh, lets just slap them in next to swordsman."

The "Blade Dancer" concept does not seem to be there anymore. It sounds like I am supposed to bleed and run away. Bleh.. with no terrain negotiation, that is kinda sucky.

[Keer]

But I know there are people out there that are going to have to work their asses off to make their characters viable again. And that is bullshit IMHO.

I agree to the point that no one should have to re-grind under this circumstance, but there is a week long grace period now for skillpoint respecification. It's good that it's been recognized as fair to give us that leeway.

Personally, I'd like a month's grace period. But that's because sometimes I like to analyze. Then analyze the analysis...then bulletproof and tweak (One reason my IC posting is nigh non-existent).

But, I agree, that there will be some folks, maybe me too, that might re-spec points, not like the re-spec results, and then not have enough time to test another re-spec before the deadline. That wouldst most sucketh.

I don't want to grind anything...for a long long time.

[Keer]

The new fencer is a damage dealer with weak defenses. So my Master Dancer +7 defense bonus will probably be useless, as will my 4 boxed in FS Melee Defense.

Sounds like you need a Tank!! With the 43 billion credit Pentagon "Avoidance" package. :lol:

And I'll need to group with a damage dealer now that my Vibro Knucklers will be used to reflect sunlight off the blade, ...uhm...blinding my attackers...so they miss me?

:lol: :lol:

It'll be fun finding out the new deelio, I think.

[Ekade]

But I know there are people out there that are going to have to work their asses off to make their characters viable again. And that is bullshit IMHO.

I agree to the point that no one should have to re-grind under this circumstance, but there is a week long grace period now for skillpoint respecification. It's good that it's been recognized as fair to give us that leeway.

Personally, I'd like a month's grace period. But that's because sometimes I like to analyze. Then analyze the analysis...then bulletproof and tweak (One reason my IC posting is nigh non-existent).

But, I agree, that there will be some folks, maybe me too, that might re-spec points, not like the re-spec results, and then not have enough time to test another re-spec before the deadline. That wouldst most sucketh.

I don't want to grind anything...for a long long time.

Yes, a month would be far more desirable for testing and tweaking.

It actually sounds like TKM is the closest thing to my concept of "fencer" out there. To bad they call it "Teras Kasi". "Teras Kasi" implies a culture around the art. In game terms it is just a set of skills. They should have called it "Unarmed Combatant".

Bleh.. I am right next to "Commando" on the chart. I don't like that at all.

I voted "No" to the poll question.

[Novall]

But I know there are people out there that are going to have to work their asses off to make their characters viable again. And that is bullshit IMHO.

I agree to the point that no one should have to re-grind under this circumstance, but there is a week long grace period now for skillpoint respecification. It's good that it's been recognized as fair to give us that leeway.

Personally, I'd like a month's grace period. But that's because sometimes I like to analyze. Then analyze the analysis...then bulletproof and tweak (One reason my IC posting is nigh non-existent).

But, I agree, that there will be some folks, maybe me too, that might re-spec points, not like the re-spec results, and then not have enough time to test another re-spec before the deadline. That wouldst most sucketh.

I don't want to grind anything...for a long long time.

Yes, a month would be far more desirable for testing and tweaking.

It actually sounds like TKM is the closest thing to my concept of "fencer" out there. To bad they call it "Teras Kasi". "Teras Kasi" implies a culture around the art. In game terms it is just a set of skills. They should have called it "Unarmed Combatant".

Bleh.. I am right next to "Commando" on the chart. I don't like that at all.

I voted "No" to the poll question.

How do you think I feel? Their saying my DE10 pistol beats a T21 rifle for crowd control.