SW question... (possible ep3 spoilers?)

[Novall]

Actually, if you go back and watch all the movies...some of these questions will answer themselves.

C3PO did get a memory wipe. This is proved when he says in Ep 4 to Owen "My first job was programming binary load lifters." We know this isnt true...his first job was being a protocol droid for Shmi Skywalker

As for the blow glowy thing:

There are 2 lines that sum this up in my opinion: "If you strike me down I will become more powerful then you can possiably imagine." Obi Wan Ep 4

"Strong am I with the force...but not that strong." Yoda Ep 6

Both Obi and Yoda were council members...and you have to realize how powerful that position is in the SW universe. These jedi were totally in tune with the force and their actions and words were those of the force. Qui Gon was not a council member because he didnt agree with all of the jedi order's rules, edicts ect. I guess you could say Qui Gon was a kind of a jedi rogue He was a master because his knowledge and use of the force was great, but he wasnt in tune enough to make it to blue glowy. Even Obi Wan told him that he would be on teh council if he just followed their orders.

Thats my take on it.

[Ekade]

I guess you could say Qui Gon was a kind of a jedi rogue He was a master because his knowledge and use of the force was great, but he wasnt in tune enough to make it to blue glowy. Even Obi Wan told him that he would be on teh council if he just followed their orders.

Consider this.. I recall someone (it may have even been GL) saying that Qui Gon was supposed to be an example of the ideal Jedi. Yet we see in the movie that he sometimes disagrees with the council.

We (will) also see the Jedi fall.

Is GL suggesting that the Jedi council got a little too arrogant? Did they lose touch with that it truly meant to be a Jedi where Qui Gon did not?

Food for thought.

[Novall]

I guess you could say Qui Gon was a kind of a jedi rogue He was a master because his knowledge and use of the force was great, but he wasnt in tune enough to make it to blue glowy. Even Obi Wan told him that he would be on teh council if he just followed their orders.

Consider this.. I recall someone (it may have even been GL) saying that Qui Gon was supposed to be an example of the ideal Jedi. Yet we see in the movie that he sometimes disagrees with the council.

We (will) also see the Jedi fall.

Is GL suggesting that the Jedi council got a little too arrogant? Did they lose touch with that it truly meant to be a Jedi where Qui Gon did not?

Food for thought.

in Ep 2 we see Obi walking the halls of the temple with Yoda and Mace. he spoke that he didnt think Anakin was ready for an assignment alone yet, and that he felt Anakin was to arrogant. Yoda then spoke up and said "A trait found in many young jedi these days."

Qui Gon's defiance came from his former master Dooko, just as Obi's defiance came from Qui Gon. Yoda even called Obi defiant at the end of Ep 1, and said that he didnt need that kind of trait in his personality..."Qui Gon's defiance you have, need that you do not."

[Skorixor]

wasn't luke a bit defiant?

he went into the dark force cave and lost against fake vader, whenyoda said no

he left dagobah when yoda said no

[Ekade]

wasn't luke a bit defiant?

he went into the dark force cave and lost against fake vader, whenyoda said no

he left dagobah when yoda said no

So, we are left to ponder who was right? Luke or Yoda?

I have this nagging thought... Did Yoda fail somehow in all of this? Did he fail to see and do something that could have prevented the dark side from gripping the galaxy?

You know what I want to see.. the complete biography of Palpatine. His is truly the most interesting character in the whole saga... thwarted completely by R2D2, but that is a debate for another time.


Funny thing.. in Epoisode IV Luke did NOT want to go with Obi-Wan to Alderaan. He only went after discovering his Aunt and Uncle were killed.

[Dasumi]

Is GL suggesting that the Jedi council got a little too arrogant?

Even the, as most people consider him, wisest jedi, Yoda, suggested this ;)

He was a master because his knowledge and use of the force was great, but he wasnt in tune enough to make it to blue glowy.

Here's a small quote from the official Star Wars website about Qui Gon

Other Jedi Masters often use Jinn's focused sensitivity to the Force as an example for their pupils

And Obi-Wan himself thinks that

his mentor was perhaps the greatest Jedi alive, a commanding presence at Council, a strong and brave warrior who refused to be intimidated by even the most daunting challenge, and a good and kind man

He considers none of the council members, as powerfull as they might be, as the greatest jedi, but the one who chooses to object the jedi council at times.

And actually Qui Gon was in tune enough to become one with the force.

GL states that it is Qui-Gon's voice that you hear in Episode 2 when Anakin slaughters the tuskens (the "Anakin, no" in the background) and in several novels, even the ones directly related to Episode 3, are chapters where Qui-Gon talks to other jedi, even Yoda.

And just this being in tune with the force is something that the other jedi, even the council members, do not understand yet, because GL himself said:
one of the things (Old Ben Kenobi) was doing on Tatooine besides watching over Luke was learning how to keep his identity after he became part of the Force

By the time of the prequels they just don't know about how to do it or that it is even possible to keep the own identity when becoming one with the force.
[another edit ^^]
In i think Labyrinth of Evil (ok, it's Dark Rendevouz *g*) Yoda (after talking to Qui-Gon for thirteen years since his death) discusses the thought of keeping ones identity when becoming one with the force with another jedi master, and it is very obvious that this is a concept that's not common for even masters.
The common believe of the jedi at the time of the prequel is that when becoming one with the force someone loses his personality.

That they become one with the force (the unifying! force) is a believe that all jedi share, not just the council members.

[Novall]

Palpatine is actually fairly old. His master was Darth Plagueis (called Darth Plagueis the Wise), and through him learned the art of manipulating midichlorians to prevent death. Sidieus killed his former master like most sith do...and took on the guise of Palpatine. I'm pretty sure that isnt his real name though. Palpatine is the strongest sith in the galaxy during his rise to power and through his reign as emperor. He actually had a labratory full of clone bodies hiddin on a planet who's name I cant remember atm...but I know that a clone of Jedi Master Jorus C'Both protected his labratory.

There isnt a whole lot of history out there about Palpatine that I've ever been able to find. There is no explination as to how he wasnt detected as a potential jedi as an infant, because if he had then he would have been taken to the temple.

[Ekade]

Palpatine is actually fairly old. His master was Darth Plagueis (called Darth Plagueis the Wise), and through him learned the art of manipulating midichlorians to prevent death. Sidieus killed his former master like most sith do...and took on the guise of Palpatine. I'm pretty sure that isnt his real name though. Palpatine is the strongest sith in the galaxy during his rise to power and through his reign as emperor. He actually had a labratory full of clone bodies hiddin on a planet who's name I cant remember atm...but I know that a clone of Jedi Master Jorus C'Both protected his labratory.

There isnt a whole lot of history out there about Palpatine that I've ever been able to find. There is no explination as to how he wasnt detected as a potential jedi as an infant, because if he had then he would have been taken to the temple.

hmmm.. one thing bothers me about that.. the word "midichlorians".

That concept sucked the whole mystery of the force out of the story. I like to pretend it never happened. To me the forece is as obi-wan decribed it to luke. "Mytical energy field..surrounds us, penetrated us.. binds us together"

[Hashum]

Palpatine is actually fairly old. His master was Darth Plagueis (called Darth Plagueis the Wise), and through him learned the art of manipulating midichlorians to prevent death. Sidieus killed his former master like most sith do...and took on the guise of Palpatine. I'm pretty sure that isnt his real name though. Palpatine is the strongest sith in the galaxy during his rise to power and through his reign as emperor. He actually had a labratory full of clone bodies hiddin on a planet who's name I cant remember atm...but I know that a clone of Jedi Master Jorus C'Both protected his labratory.

There isnt a whole lot of history out there about Palpatine that I've ever been able to find. There is no explination as to how he wasnt detected as a potential jedi as an infant, because if he had then he would have been taken to the temple.

hmmm.. one thing bothers me about that.. the word "midichlorians".

That concept sucked the whole mystery of the force out of the story. I like to pretend it never happened. To me the forece is as obi-wan decribed it to luke. "Mytical energy field..surrounds us, penetrated us.. binds us together"

That still is the Force the Midichlorians are simply what allow living beings to connect to that energy field. They're like the power converters.

[Skorixor]

That still is the Force the Midichlorians are simply what allow living beings to connect to that energy field. They're like the power converters.

Then I'm going to Toschi Station for some power converters!!

[Ekade]

That still is the Force the Midichlorians are simply what allow living beings to connect to that energy field. They're like the power converters.

True.. I just question the need for a scientific explanation of the Force. I liked it better when it was just a "mystical energy field". There does not NEED to be power converters, IMO.

You should have heard the hardcore SW geeks groaning at the theater when Qui-Gon went into that during Ep I.

[Hashum]

That still is the Force the Midichlorians are simply what allow living beings to connect to that energy field. They're like the power converters.

True.. I just question the need for a scientific explanation of the Force. I liked it better when it was just a "mystical energy field". There does not NEED to be power converters, IMO.

You should have heard the hardcore SW geeks groaning at the theater when Qui-Gon went into that during Ep I.

I know I was one of them. I simply mean the best way for me to swallow that pill was by looking at it as a less there had to be something that allowed only certain beings to be able to tap into that "mystical energy field" and so the converter type theory was the most palitable.

Let me keep the "mystical energy field" and down play the science portion that GL had to drop on us.

Frankly I thought that was almost as bad as Jar Jar.

[Dasumi]

I know I was one of them. I simply mean the best way for me to swallow that pill was by looking at it as a less there had to be something that allowed only certain beings to be able to tap into that "mystical energy field" and so the converter type theory was the most palitable.

Let me keep the "mystical energy field" and down play the science portion that GL had to drop on us.

Frankly I thought that was almost as bad as Jar Jar.

As far as i understood midichlorians are part of every living being, not just jedi.
Didn't Qui-Gon (it occurs to me that i seem to be a Qui-Gon fanatic as often as i mention him *g*) say, that without them life would be impossible or something?
Jedi are just lifeforms with higher midichlorian counts and more trained to actually get in touch with them.

And even with the midichlorian explanation the force is still the mystical energy field.
Even in the prequels there's no explanation of what the force actually is or how it works.
Just how living beings get in contact with it. And that they are in contact with it is something we already know since Episode IV ;)

[Ekade]

Yes, I suppose there can be a mystical energy field AND midichlorians.. but I liked it better when it was just the mystical energy field.

I also have a continuity issue with midichlorians because Obi-wan and Yoda never mentioned them in Episodes IV, V, and VI. The whole concept came across as rather weak and not very well thought out. IMO.

[Dasumi]

Yes, I suppose there can be a mystical energy field AND midichlorians.. but I liked it better when it was just the mystical energy field.

I also have a continuity issue with midichlorians because Obi-wan and Yoda never mentioned them in Episodes IV, V, and VI. The whole concept came across as rather weak and not very well thought out. IMO.

Well, before the prequels it (probably) were jedi directly in touch with the force, now it's jedi being in touch with the force through midichlorians.
Not much of a change for me, except that it shows that the jedi order during the times of the old republic was scientificly advanced enough to look for explanations of how the force works.
Maybe that's one of the faults of the jedi order before its fall, they're moving away from the spiritual side of the force to more rational explanations.
More like just seeking knowledge about the force instead of wisdom. But that's just a thought of mine ^^

And i don't see a continuity problem here, it just never was necessary to mention it to Luke.

Obi-Wan surely didn't plan to die on the first deathstar and most probably thought he would have time to train Luke more thouroughly on Alderaan.
Actually all of the training we see during Episode IV is such as we see in Episode 2 with Yoda and the younglings (one of the best pieces of the Episode 2 soundtrack by the way, in my humble opinion ^^) , the very basic training for new padawans in the jedi order, to get used to a lightsaber and such, not even close to any more advanced jedi training.

And we don't even know about most of what Yoda tought Luke, in the movies there are actually just some small scenes from all the time he's learning from Yoda. Maybe he told him about midichlorians while we were looking the other way *g*
But, connecting to my other thought about the jedi order and scientific explanations, maybe there was no need for Luke to know. Maybe Yoda and Obi-Wan did not want a last jedi who thinks about the force as something that can be explained by science, like the old jedi order did.

And, well, it sure was a plot device to show how strong Anakin is in the force. And maybe a plot device that fits to my other thoughts ;)