National ID Cards will be Law Tomorrow

[Novall]

And the right to bear arms. The second amendment states it be only for the maintenance of a "well regulated militia, being neccesary for the security of a free state..."

Strict constructionism kills that one, too.

Not really, because you can consider the current gun laws we have in place a means to keep it "well regulated".

[warsloth]

please don't get me started on second amendment discussion.

I'm sure everyone here already knows I am a gun owner, several times over.

A system of ID like this reminds me of when Hitler gave ID #'s to a certain group of people. So what, are we all slaves now? How soon until we get these nice little chips with our VISA info, not only for identification but for our credit info. (VI 6 in Roman #'s, S 6 in ancient sumarian, A 6 in greek.... or so I have heard) Then when the world standardizes currency, or just comes up with a method for automatic calculation, everyone in the world can have the joy of slavery.


-Whar out...


DANGER!!! DO NOT READ THE REST OF THIS THREAD IF YOU ARE SENSATIVE TO CERTAIN SUBJECT MATTER... you have been warned

Revelation 13: 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

[Skorixor]

Revelation 13: 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

I received the 666 mark on my right hand...

and I was like, "Awww Yeah, this is gonna be hella-cool"

until I realized I read it upside-down and it was just 999

DAMNIT!

[warsloth]

well, just think about how feasable this 2000 year old vision is today???

stick that in your pipe...

[Skorixor]

well, just think about how feasable this 2000 year old vision is today???

stick that in your pipe...

well I stuck it in my pipe, and smoked it up and got a pretty good buzz, but then it was all gone, and I can't find it anymore...

so it must not mean much

[X'an Shin]

Revelation 13: 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Uh guys? I said before that it's recently turned out that 666 is the TYPO of the Beast.

http://www.warrenellis.com/index.php?p=675

Turns out 616 is actually Emporer Caligula's number (where the number originally came from).

So, for future reference, 616, not 666.

[Jabe Adaks]

Back on topic... Just wanted an idea if anybody felt that the electronic aspect of these cards could securely be pulled off. It seems from Lok'i's experience that it is feasible.

Jabe

[Seret Sajet]

Revelation 13: 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Uh guys? I said before that it's recently turned out that 666 is the TYPO of the Beast.

http://www.warrenellis.com/index.php?p=675

Turns out 616 is actually Emporer Caligula's number (where the number originally came from).

So, for future reference, 616, not 666.

Odd, I've read many books describing how the book of Revelations has been misinterpreted for a great long while. These are book by theologians mind you, not conspiricy theorists. What I've read is similiar to what X'an found but not the same person behind it. As far as I knew the "Mark of the Beast" referred to King Herod, a beast in and of himself, who sought to kill Jesus as a baby. In Roman times numbers were used to represent names and this number was Herod's. Those who bore his mark did his will.

But I don't want to go violating my own rules here. I'm am all about discussions of any nature but all it takes is two people of opposing political or religious views to start a war in the forums. Lets respect this rule and end the discussion here. There are countless sites and forums dedicated to religion where these discussions would be more suited. No need for a lock or a mod, I'm just asking nicely.

Now, as Jabe said, back on topic. I have been and always will be for growing technology. The growth of technology creates jobs and in some cases a better way of life. For example, the computer you are now viewing this post on. Years ago someone said we will never be able to have computers in our own homes, it would take up far too much power and space. Think about it, does technology rule our lives or does it just make things a little easier.

[Krusshyk]

I am failing to see why these cards would be more secure than say your average bank card's pin number...

Ok, it's got a "PIN-like number" based on an algorithm of your fingerprint. Ok, so we know that it is randomly generated and unique. But it is still just a number (random as any PIN) and has to be stored in a multitude of places.

My biggest gripe is the price tag and the lack of federal funding. I love when the federal government says, "Here...we mandate that you do this, and it will probably cost you about 350 million. Oh, and in case you were wondering about if we would pay for it, the answer is 'no'."

Gee thanks.

[warsloth]

totally agree with you Krusshyk.
If they put the stupid number on a card, and throw it out to everyone so you can be identified by it, then how is it secure. If they can rip off credit cards and DL's whats to save this special card. It's just more federalism.

Thomas Jefferson would be quite pissed if he could see what we have let happen.
On the other hand Alexander Hamilton would be quite pleased. But who cares about him anyway.
Thomas Jefferson, the author of the declaration of Independance, was against any form of "federalization." I believe this is because he knew that it would be much like being under English control. So now rather than being controled and taxed from England, we are controled by a foreign body in/near Maryland.
Taxation without Representation. This is the kind of thing many people died for, in war after war. We let the blood settle, we let the fires die, and now we are in the same spot. We can thank ourselves for letting our impending doom gather around us. We tighten the noose. There are not enough heroes left, willing to bleed for this country to be free.
Frankly, people make me sick.

[X'an Shin]

I am failing to see why these cards would be more secure than say your average bank card's pin number...

Ok, it's got a "PIN-like number" based on an algorithm of your fingerprint. Ok, so we know that it is randomly generated and unique. But it is still just a number (random as any PIN) and has to be stored in a multitude of places.

My biggest gripe is the price tag and the lack of federal funding. I love when the federal government says, "Here...we mandate that you do this, and it will probably cost you about 350 million. Oh, and in case you were wondering about if we would pay for it, the answer is 'no'."

Gee thanks.

I think the whole point here isn't the PIN number that you guys are getting fixated on, it's that they're now MUCH more difficult to obtain. You'll now need 4 forms of identification, one of which is a photo ID (I'm still not clear how a 16 year old is going to have a Photo ID before they get this card, but that's another story), another of which is your actual Social Security card.

Right now all you need to get a driver's license is 2 forms of ID, one of which is a bill that was mailed to your home address (i.e. not very secure). We all know someone in college who had fake Drivers Licenses. I even knew a guy in college who used his brother's information to get one AT THE DMV. Those days should be long gone, with the process now taking more than 24 hours to complete, with background checks, etc.

The driver's license is currently used as a form of identification, which it shouldn't be. It's a driver's license. It's not a State ID, nor a Federal ID. Just something that gives you the right to drive, much like a hunting license or fishing license. When you think about it, would it make sense for someone at a register to ask to see your fishing license when you wrote a check? The point here is that we need a stronger way to ID people, so that illegals and terrorists can't just walk in here and pretend to be someone they're not. It's just too easy right now.

If these cards are used against the citizens of the US, or used to infringe our rights, I'll be the first guy in line at the revolution.

'Till then, viva la Federal ID card.

[Krusshyk]

I am failing to see why these cards would be more secure than say your average bank card's pin number...

Ok, it's got a "PIN-like number" based on an algorithm of your fingerprint. Ok, so we know that it is randomly generated and unique. But it is still just a number (random as any PIN) and has to be stored in a multitude of places.

My biggest gripe is the price tag and the lack of federal funding. I love when the federal government says, "Here...we mandate that you do this, and it will probably cost you about 350 million. Oh, and in case you were wondering about if we would pay for it, the answer is 'no'."

Gee thanks.

I think the whole point here isn't the PIN number that you guys are getting fixated on, it's that they're now MUCH more difficult to obtain. You'll now need 4 forms of identification, one of which is a photo ID (I'm still not clear how a 16 year old is going to have a Photo ID before they get this card, but that's another story), another of which is your actual Social Security card.

Right now all you need to get a driver's license is 2 forms of ID, one of which is a bill that was mailed to your home address (i.e. not very secure). We all know someone in college who had fake Drivers Licenses. I even knew a guy in college who used his brother's information to get one AT THE DMV. Those days should be long gone, with the process now taking more than 24 hours to complete, with background checks, etc.

The driver's license is currently used as a form of identification, which it shouldn't be. It's a driver's license. It's not a State ID, nor a Federal ID. Just something that gives you the right to drive, much like a hunting license or fishing license. When you think about it, would it make sense for someone at a register to ask to see your fishing license when you wrote a check? The point here is that we need a stronger way to ID people, so that illegals and terrorists can't just walk in here and pretend to be someone they're not. It's just too easy right now.

If these cards are used against the citizens of the US, or used to infringe our rights, I'll be the first guy in line at the revolution.

'Till then, viva la Federal ID card.

AH.

I was looking at this as more of a "personal security" issue than a National one. Seems to make more sense that way.

I am still concerned about the bill for it though...it can't be cheap to overhaul the entire nation's driver's licensing system. And from what I have read, the federal government is alloting zero dollars to the program. Granted, if the fed did kick in some funds, the tax burden on us would increase anyway...but...with the way it is set to go down, the state has to find the funds for the program. When states look for funds, they have a tendency to cut important programs like education because they are run by idiots. And with the widely unpopular "no child left behind" law, I see the diversion of funds from education to be ammunition for the dissenters. "We can't afford nclb AND your crazy ID program...which is it gonna be?" That is how I would swing it, anyway.

[Krusshyk]

I am failing to see why these cards would be more secure than say your average bank card's pin number...

Ok, it's got a "PIN-like number" based on an algorithm of your fingerprint. Ok, so we know that it is randomly generated and unique. But it is still just a number (random as any PIN) and has to be stored in a multitude of places.

My biggest gripe is the price tag and the lack of federal funding. I love when the federal government says, "Here...we mandate that you do this, and it will probably cost you about 350 million. Oh, and in case you were wondering about if we would pay for it, the answer is 'no'."

Gee thanks.

I think the whole point here isn't the PIN number that you guys are getting fixated on, it's that they're now MUCH more difficult to obtain. You'll now need 4 forms of identification, one of which is a photo ID (I'm still not clear how a 16 year old is going to have a Photo ID before they get this card, but that's another story), another of which is your actual Social Security card.

Right now all you need to get a driver's license is 2 forms of ID, one of which is a bill that was mailed to your home address (i.e. not very secure). We all know someone in college who had fake Drivers Licenses. I even knew a guy in college who used his brother's information to get one AT THE DMV. Those days should be long gone, with the process now taking more than 24 hours to complete, with background checks, etc.

The driver's license is currently used as a form of identification, which it shouldn't be. It's a driver's license. It's not a State ID, nor a Federal ID. Just something that gives you the right to drive, much like a hunting license or fishing license. When you think about it, would it make sense for someone at a register to ask to see your fishing license when you wrote a check? The point here is that we need a stronger way to ID people, so that illegals and terrorists can't just walk in here and pretend to be someone they're not. It's just too easy right now.

If these cards are used against the citizens of the US, or used to infringe our rights, I'll be the first guy in line at the revolution.

'Till then, viva la Federal ID card.

AH.

I was looking at this as more of a "personal security" issue than a National one. Seems to make more sense that way.

I am still concerned about the bill for it though...it can't be cheap to overhaul the entire nation's driver's licensing system. And from what I have read, the federal government is alloting zero dollars to the program. Granted, if the fed did kick in some funds, the tax burden on us would increase anyway...but...with the way it is set to go down, the state has to find the funds for the program. When states look for funds, they have a tendency to cut important programs like education because they are run by idiots. And with the widely unpopular "no child left behind" law, I see the diversion of funds from education to be ammunition for the dissenters. "We can't afford nclb AND your crazy ID program...which is it gonna be?" That is how I would swing it, anyway.

[Novall]

If they tell me I cant drive without one...then I'll get one. Other then that they can keep it.

[Sai'nu]

I'm not sure what to think of this myself. Id, Id, Id. Your either too young and have none or your too old, look too young, get carded, etc, etc, etc.

Having been in the military I can tell ya, Id is a big deal. However, I seem to remember a saying from somewhere that went a little like this, "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems that'll slip through your fingers."

I guess a line of thinking I have is... no matter what you do there will always be someone somewhere that'll find the way around the new system. I think the best deffense we have is governing ourselves. There in is the problem since we're not all morally correct as it were.

Identification is simply a necessary thing we use to try to deal with the reality that we're not in control if you ask me.