In light of all the recent angst some of us feel for one another, I must implore you all to take a few minutes and relax before you post.
Of course, this should be kept in mind while in-game as well.
Please aknowledge that the other posters are people just like you. If you think something will be taken the wrong way, don't submit it.
Take a few minutes and consider what is best for everyone here. Personal grudges here don't just affect those involved, they affect the community.
I seriously don't want there to be any conflict between anyone here. Our whole aim is to find a common ground among RP'ers. Sometimes this requires things like sacrifice, compromise, and patience.
Keep this in mind while in the game as well.
Also remember that there is a difference between someone's character, and the person behind them.
How many times have I had my rear end handed to me in PVP, just to conform to another's will?
several
While RP'ing I try to always consider a few basic things. One being, I am not the only one. There are several other people, and stories running parallel to my own. When they intersect there are many combinations of outcomes that can happen.
Sometimes I want a certain outcome, but I give in to the wants and needs of others around me. Often I spend a lot of time discussing this with them.
There are lots of times when I screw things up and step on other people's toes....
So I apologize the best I can, and try to set it right.
I can only hope that some here will humble themselves in a spirit of forgiveness, and understanding to overcome this ordeal.
Heaping up logs on the fire does not help us. So I beg everyone to take these things to heart, and think on them. Put away childish things, and lets act like adults in a situation that requires it.
Addressing Dwilah's questions
No but your one-liners Have me laughing for everOeree wrote:Don't worry Kirt. You can still always beat the shit out of me.... but I'm not much of a challenge...
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KirtViza
Thank you for the call for calmness. I think taking a step back and breathing should help relieve tension. Anything but adding more fuel to a fire, relieves tension.
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Aknal Dreidel
- Warrant Officer I
((I appologize, once again, for not having internet access at work. This would have been posted 6 hours ago.))
After 2 hours of research, I think I'm caught up on all the issues that are at a boil.
I'd like to summarize several key misunderstandings (some of which have already been covered separately) to collect them in one nice little post.
1. SWGTales is not the community. The SWGTales Team is not the ruling council on the community.
The RP Guidelines are not rules.
The RP community encompasses a much broader spectrum of players than just those that post on Tales. I'm fairly confident in saying that Tales members are not even a majority of Gorath's RP population, at this time.
The Tales Team is mistaken as the government by many, because it has existed longer than many of us have been a part of this community. It is made up of long-time, well-respected members of our community and paid for by Seret. We have no government. Each player polices his/her own RP, and in some cases, are subject to the rulings of their guild's leadership.
When we created the guidelines, we all knew they were only suggestions. They won't be followed as much as we'd like. Players that choose to not adhere to them will not be reprimanded by the community.
Do the above describe the situation as you see it? Are you happy with the community as it exists? Would joining a guild that polices its member's RP be better for you or worse? Do you feel that RPing with "freelance" RPers isn't in keeping with your personal goals for your own RP?
--
2. SWGTales is NOT against a public discussion of problems with players, IF they are presented as an issue for the community. Every public forum is meant for discussion.or they would be called something other than forums. When someone presents a problem with a single player, it is a personal attack. This attack may be rooted in an issue caused by the player in question, OR by the attacker. These problems won't go away with personal attacks.
Example: Iago and Zyre have an IC discussion about dispensing the pay of the band. Iago insists the dancers deserve less. Zyre challenges Iago to a duel. Iago does not accept, because Zyre is a ninja and will whip his tail.
Result: Zyre is angry with Iago, and wants to show his friend the error of his way.
Solution 1: Zyre could make a public post questioning the community's stance on IC duel challenges. (Yes, this issue has been covered in the past, and he would instantly be directed to the RP guidelines we have set forth.) He would likely receive several responses supporting the guideline, and likely a few against it. This would provoke discussion. Zyre would point Iago at the thread, which in no way is a personal attack at Iago or even mentions his name, and hope that Iago is able to learn from his mistake from the discussion.
If Iago understands his mistake, he may apologize, or he may correct his methods and let the topic drop (many people are unable to admit they're wrong to themselves, and their pride would not allow it). If he does not see what he has done as a mistake, and feels that the community is wrong, Zyre would have the option of not RPing with Iago in the future.
Once enough people have found RPing with Iago is a mistake, he will be interacted with less often, and would either question why, or accept it. Either way, Zyre would feel his side of the argument has been ratified by the community.
Solution 2: Zyre begins addressing Iago openly about his stance on the problem in a public venue (in our case, a SWGTales public forum). Even if insults are kept from the argument, it still is a directed attack, and mentions someones name. This is widely accepted in social sciences as an aggressive form of discussion.
Iagos choices are, in this case:
-Respond in kind, as he feels his stance is right and should not be dismissed (aggressively respond in his own defense).
-Accept the attack, ignore his hurt feelings, and pride, and change his ways.
-Choose to ignore the attack and continue as he has done in the past.
Which flame-war result does each one of us think is most likely? Which solution seems to have the most productive results? Does anyone feel that my descriptions of events following the initial argument are in error, or that there are other possible solutions? (If so, please respond in a calm and rational manner, to further support this discussion.)
--
My opinion:
Everyone needs to understand their limitations in the issues at hand. It is not possible to enforce the RP guidelines as policy, except within one's own guild. Tales members are in no way required to follow the guidelines in order to be members of this forum or to RP in SWG. Tales members ARE, however, required to follow the rules of the forum and are responsible for their actions when they have broken those rules. Be an example of the right way to RP, or don't follow the guidelines: your $15 a month lets you do as you please. Even if a player is adamant in their decision to go against the guidelines we have set forth, they will still be members of the community, because other members consider them a friend, and will continue to RP, interact and invite them to spend time with them.
Self-controlled anarchy exists in RP in SWG. There is no power over us. Everyone must learn to accept what they cannot change. I won't attempt to stop anyone from changing the above (anymore than this post, itself), but I don't expect positive results. The RP community won't degrade into total anarchy, because it is made up of players mature enough to prevent that degradation.
If we decide to create a ruling council over RP, we will be taking on a huge amount of work. I don't believe it would be possible. A single power over the community would shatter it.
------------------------------
-Boom
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
After 2 hours of research, I think I'm caught up on all the issues that are at a boil.
I'd like to summarize several key misunderstandings (some of which have already been covered separately) to collect them in one nice little post.
1. SWGTales is not the community. The SWGTales Team is not the ruling council on the community.
The RP Guidelines are not rules.
The RP community encompasses a much broader spectrum of players than just those that post on Tales. I'm fairly confident in saying that Tales members are not even a majority of Gorath's RP population, at this time.
The Tales Team is mistaken as the government by many, because it has existed longer than many of us have been a part of this community. It is made up of long-time, well-respected members of our community and paid for by Seret. We have no government. Each player polices his/her own RP, and in some cases, are subject to the rulings of their guild's leadership.
When we created the guidelines, we all knew they were only suggestions. They won't be followed as much as we'd like. Players that choose to not adhere to them will not be reprimanded by the community.
Do the above describe the situation as you see it? Are you happy with the community as it exists? Would joining a guild that polices its member's RP be better for you or worse? Do you feel that RPing with "freelance" RPers isn't in keeping with your personal goals for your own RP?
--
2. SWGTales is NOT against a public discussion of problems with players, IF they are presented as an issue for the community. Every public forum is meant for discussion.or they would be called something other than forums. When someone presents a problem with a single player, it is a personal attack. This attack may be rooted in an issue caused by the player in question, OR by the attacker. These problems won't go away with personal attacks.
Example: Iago and Zyre have an IC discussion about dispensing the pay of the band. Iago insists the dancers deserve less. Zyre challenges Iago to a duel. Iago does not accept, because Zyre is a ninja and will whip his tail.
Result: Zyre is angry with Iago, and wants to show his friend the error of his way.
Solution 1: Zyre could make a public post questioning the community's stance on IC duel challenges. (Yes, this issue has been covered in the past, and he would instantly be directed to the RP guidelines we have set forth.) He would likely receive several responses supporting the guideline, and likely a few against it. This would provoke discussion. Zyre would point Iago at the thread, which in no way is a personal attack at Iago or even mentions his name, and hope that Iago is able to learn from his mistake from the discussion.
If Iago understands his mistake, he may apologize, or he may correct his methods and let the topic drop (many people are unable to admit they're wrong to themselves, and their pride would not allow it). If he does not see what he has done as a mistake, and feels that the community is wrong, Zyre would have the option of not RPing with Iago in the future.
Once enough people have found RPing with Iago is a mistake, he will be interacted with less often, and would either question why, or accept it. Either way, Zyre would feel his side of the argument has been ratified by the community.
Solution 2: Zyre begins addressing Iago openly about his stance on the problem in a public venue (in our case, a SWGTales public forum). Even if insults are kept from the argument, it still is a directed attack, and mentions someones name. This is widely accepted in social sciences as an aggressive form of discussion.
Iagos choices are, in this case:
-Respond in kind, as he feels his stance is right and should not be dismissed (aggressively respond in his own defense).
-Accept the attack, ignore his hurt feelings, and pride, and change his ways.
-Choose to ignore the attack and continue as he has done in the past.
Which flame-war result does each one of us think is most likely? Which solution seems to have the most productive results? Does anyone feel that my descriptions of events following the initial argument are in error, or that there are other possible solutions? (If so, please respond in a calm and rational manner, to further support this discussion.)
--
My opinion:
Everyone needs to understand their limitations in the issues at hand. It is not possible to enforce the RP guidelines as policy, except within one's own guild. Tales members are in no way required to follow the guidelines in order to be members of this forum or to RP in SWG. Tales members ARE, however, required to follow the rules of the forum and are responsible for their actions when they have broken those rules. Be an example of the right way to RP, or don't follow the guidelines: your $15 a month lets you do as you please. Even if a player is adamant in their decision to go against the guidelines we have set forth, they will still be members of the community, because other members consider them a friend, and will continue to RP, interact and invite them to spend time with them.
Self-controlled anarchy exists in RP in SWG. There is no power over us. Everyone must learn to accept what they cannot change. I won't attempt to stop anyone from changing the above (anymore than this post, itself), but I don't expect positive results. The RP community won't degrade into total anarchy, because it is made up of players mature enough to prevent that degradation.
If we decide to create a ruling council over RP, we will be taking on a huge amount of work. I don't believe it would be possible. A single power over the community would shatter it.
------------------------------
-Boom
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
-
IagoBoom
- Colonel
Yeah, it's too bad this didn't get up earlier, but it does fit with the solution that seems to have arisen tonight. The agreement of the admin staff at tales to not enforce the guidelines, but indeed support them is a much appreciated big step.IagoBoom wrote:Lots of stuff that all makes very good sense
Nobody will be excluded or tossed out like you said, but people at least get some understanding that the group of people already here have standards that we try to follow.
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toront
- Gorath Jedi Council
he condensed you rather large post with large green font into one simple sentence, so he wouldn't have an even larger postIagoBoom wrote:Where's that quote from, Toront? /boggle
Last edited by Skorixor on Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Skorixor
- Grand Moff
yeah, it was a paraphrase (and a compliment). I figured since I was the first reply, no sense in quoting the post directly above.
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toront
- Gorath Jedi Council
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