Isleh wrote:We are lamenting about the weaknesses but doing so from the point of view of newbies? Has anyone mastered yet?
I still haven't be able to get in but from what I understand... some specials are weapon specific and some are not? So could a Swordsman use the specials in Brawler 1 handed with a scythe?
Likewise, could a TKA equip a 2-handed sword and perform TKA specials since they would be qualified to use the weapon? Would they get the damage from that sword?
Defenses don't stack but would a master Swordsman/TK get the best of the two?
Is there a delay to change weapons?
Could a master pikman/master swordsman use a lance to load an opponent with status mods and then swap to a scythe and commence with the butt whooping?
Or drop the lance if things go wrong and become untouchable with TK?
If a master Fencer/TK stuck with a novice brawler weapon, does that mean they could use both Fencer and TK moves at the same time?
I have not been able to log in either however the documents released said most specials would be usable across all lines. So a Pistol special might be usable with a Carbine, or yes I believe a 1 handed sword move could be used with a 2-handed sword.
If anyone has had the chance to test this please let me know. And it may not work for all specials but on at least some.
IF that's the case... then is it going to be different with Jedi?
There isn't much out on the Jedi yet because they only get 7 testers at this point. However all Lightsaber skills would work the same, a 2-handed saber special could be used as 1-handed. However I don't think they can use non lightsaber skills with a lightsaber.
Novall wrote:Lightsabers will only do lightsaber specials Also, colored crystals now add elemental damage based on the color of the crystal.
Ok, the color crystal elemental thing that's just crap. What element is Orange? Or what about Brown? I assume Blue=Cold, Red=Heat, Yellow=Electricity, Green=Acid, oh yeah what about Purple? Will Purple be some new devistating Twi'lek only elemental attack?
Novall wrote:Lightsabers will only do lightsaber specials Also, colored crystals now add elemental damage based on the color of the crystal.
Ok, the color crystal elemental thing that's just crap. What element is Orange? Or what about Brown? I assume Blue=Cold, Red=Heat, Yellow=Electricity, Green=Acid, oh yeah what about Purple? Will Purple be some new devistating Twi'lek only elemental attack?
Purple... Blue & Red. So they do heat and Cold
Orange, they do electric heat.
Lime green, electric acid.
Novall wrote:Lightsabers will only do lightsaber specials Also, colored crystals now add elemental damage based on the color of the crystal.
Ok, the color crystal elemental thing that's just crap. What element is Orange? Or what about Brown? I assume Blue=Cold, Red=Heat, Yellow=Electricity, Green=Acid, oh yeah what about Purple? Will Purple be some new devistating Twi'lek only elemental attack?
I like the way it all looks on paper, but the game itself is kind of confusing right now. I'm not sure why they switched so much of the basic interface up with a new look. I'm not going to condemn it though because a) it's not done and I'm sure it's going to be changed and polished, and b) everything new takes awhile to get used to. I will say I'm confused a little by how the timers work so far, trying to heal people, and I like the new blaster effects, though some of the particle effects for some movements like rolling shots and stuff are a little weird and random (like particle effects for dis/mounting bikes).
I'm just kind of confused. I've played it a little now, and I was so, so excited to see all the changes. They looked great on paper--and the new skilltrees even look great.
Seeing it in action, what I don't understand...it seems like they're trying to make it as much like WoW as possible. I like the old user interface, the text...I miss the combat queue, I miss default attacks. I don't understand why there seems to be a "level dot" next to player's names--levels don't work with the way SWG runs. Why try to assign a number?
WoW is popular, sure...but I played that game, I didn't like it. I don't want Star Wars-in-WoW. I was so excited to see all the changes they were making with the combat rebalance. I think they'd be great if they just took out all the WoW visual fluff and kept the old game...introduced the new mechanics.
I spent some time just looking at the new icons and all I have to say is.. "Half Ass"
Some of them look like stock photos, some of them look like illustrations, some of them look like screen captures.
All of them conflict with the user interface.
I missed the combat queue until I relized there isn't a queue anymore. Each ability belongs in a group that has a recharge time and when that recharge time is over, you can do the action from that group again.
I think I read it here that you can set a default attack by holding control and clicking on the icon. So you could actually set a special as a default attack.
Anyone have an update on what the overall consensus on the Star Wars Galaxies Forums is on this? Dev responses at this point? Because, honestly, it's looking like Half Ass WoW in Star Wars Galaxies and I would go buy WoW if I wanted to play WoW quite frankly. Combat in this game just isn't appealing to me with what I've seen on TC5 thusfar.
Jedi2b wrote:Anyone have an update on what the overall consensus on the Star Wars Galaxies Forums is on this? Dev responses at this point? Because, honestly, it's looking like Half Ass WoW in Star Wars Galaxies and I would go buy WoW if I wanted to play WoW quite frankly. Combat in this game just isn't appealing to me with what I've seen on TC5 thusfar.
I have not been on TC so I cannot answer.
Based on many of their design decisions, it is clear they played WoW and are trying to emulate some of the things WoW does well. Group combat in WoW is a blast.. so much so that I don't do combat in SWG anymore because it is just not all that fun in comparison.
However, I hope the SWG team does not try to implement, and I love your choice of words, "Half Ass WoW in Star Wars".
I jumped on to TC5 tonight, simply to get a feel for how things work - not to get in to details or nitpick over progression of a profession or to see if TKA or anything else got "nerfed". I just wanted to see how it flowed and worked. To be honest I think a lot of the changes in the combat system are very nice, like how it tells you if you are too far away or you missed, etc.. The graphical icons and toolbar needs a lot of work, I think they will fix that though.
My major complaint? The combat queue is gone completely. You can not queue commands. Instead you have to watch your toolbar buttons, when they are enabled or "lit up" - you can use the move again. I spent more time watchging that toolbar than actually watching the combat. Now keep in mind I am a novice brawler and this is moving slowly. Imagine how fast you're going to have to be at Master TKA, etc..
Playing on TC tonight reminded me of what I do like about the current battle system. There is SOME strategy. Its not so much about hitting the right F-key at the exact second, but planning your battle by queuing some commands seeing if it was a bad or good choice and changing that strategy. With this system, I can't even f%*$ing watch my character fight. Hell, I got killed by a dwarf nuna cause I wasn't even watching what was going on aside from checking to see if my button had lit up. I couldn't watch what was going on, because I was too busy making sure I was stacking command properly due to lack of the queue.
The last couple of days I started grinding like mad so I could finish my FS template and be done with that. Right now I am wondering if there is any point to it. If the system as it exists goes live, it won't matter how many skills I have opened up if I hate playing the game at all.
Seems to me SOE is tired of the crowd they have attracted to Galaxies, I guess we complained too much. So instead they're appealing to an entirely different crowd. Instead of fixing what is out there, they are simply trading in their players.
**Sony calls up Blizzard**
"We'll trade your whiners for ours..."
"Yeah we got a combat upgrade going on..."
"Great send 'em over..."
*pause, holding the handset*
"No most of ours are already over there... Yeah no problem. Bye."
Sorry, I try not to be nagative about these things because I do like some of the changes. But they are so far off from resembling something that I might actually enjoy - its difficult if not impossible to feel any other way. I am very frustrated and angry that this patch (unlike any other) could bust the whole game for me.
Being as objective and fair as possible about this, herewith my initial findings/reaction to TC5 Combat Upgrade Testing.
Bugs That I Submitted:
Problem: "HAM Bar & Status Display Window switches postion if I move it then unequip my weapon."
Comment: Somewhat minor issue here but, in an effort to reposition my UI to better fit the new style, I'd like some windows to stay where I put them (this issue relates to something else also, that I'll come back to later).
Problem: "Marksman Skill Firearm Strike is a melee attack, but it inflicts Energy Damage according to the Combat Window. Damage type for this attack should be Kinetic."
Comment: Major problem in regards to the skill not doing what it's stated to do. If the goal is a close up melee attack (basically a Pistol Whip) then it needs to be Kinetic damage. If it's meant to be Energy damage then change the name/description from "melee attack". If this is going to be the careful balance that it's claimed to be they need to get it straight.
Once they decide what the skill is going to be, I don't see it being too hard to change it (the actual damage effect of the special ability or the wording in the skill description) though Sony has had problems in the past taking a long time addressing the same types of issues.
Problem: Marksman Ranged Support One: Aim & Threaten Skill. It's the title of the skillbox, but there are no actual Aim or Threaten Shot ability awarded when you get it.
Comment: I can't remember for sure, but I think there was a mention in the earlier Combat Upgrade notes that Aim was being done away with (??) If so, then they need to change this title and give Threaten if they're going to leave it. If not, then award both skills.
Maybe they are consolidating the Aim function into overall character skill. If so, then it needs to be shown on the modifier bonus list in the Character Skill Sheet. So far I didn't see any Aim modifiers whatsoever listed in all of the Marksman Tree.
Other Findings:
- The Combat Queue -
While there is no display window for queued commands, the commands do queue in the system up to a point. When commands are stacked, the icon is bracketed in glowing yellow outlines. That's an indicator for whether you have multiple commands pending.
For example, I spammed 2 of my specials multiple times in rapid succession before the cool down timer was done and I saw that up to 3 commands will still execute before you have to hit the command key again. Over and over again, with different specials I tried this and succeeded in delivering the attacks.
Depending on the AM requirements of the special this might not be possible (I only had newbie specials to use; once the frogs enable Master Testing we can determine more).
Aside from that, there is some time for a player to plan his next move, etc, without having to constantly watch his cool down status.
Does the combat queue make it easier to see, even with only 3 commands pending? I say yes. Though, personally, if the queue doesn't come back, I'd be alright. Personally it doesn't take that much for me to see that cooldown be ready with peripheral vision. I felt the same crescendo when I started fighting in WoW.
- Visual Tracking - (a possibly helpful hint)
I mentioned above coming back to talk about the window movement bug I submitted. It *may* help some who are used to depending on the old combat queue to move their Toolbar down to the bottom of the screen.
Why? Because when mobs close distance on you, most of the screen action happens in the bottom half of your screen. Trying to see what your toon is doing, what mobs are closing in, *and* what your cooldown status is, will be easier to visually track if most of that critical information is located in the same general area. Or...maybe that's just me.
-Auto Defend-
The only benefit that I ever really saw for auto-defend was at long range, when some NPC could be sniping you in a prone postion that's difficult to click on and return ranged attacks. With Auto Defend, you can have a target immediately locked on to hit back.
Personally, I'd rather just move. Move out of range. If the enemy is really far then it will only take a moment to get out of 64 meter range. And if he's running after you to keep in range then you can usually pick him out to target and fire back. If he has friends, you're in trouble regardless.
At close range, even more so. Easy to see the enemy and acquire a target.
And taking an even more practical look at it, SWG has two universal tools to spot aggro hundreds of meters away, Radar and the Overlay Map (CTRL+M). Only the rarest of circumstances defeat both of these tools. You're either zooming along in a vehicle and stop, giving the graphics time to populate an aggro area or you happen to be standing on a random spawn and get suddenly aggroed.
In neither one of these circumstances will Auto Defend save you. Either throttle up the swoop to easily get away, start fighting, or run on foot. Outside of that, Auto Defend is a good "going to the bathroom" hedge.
Summary (after only about 60 minutes of actual combat time, not counting running around to train skills, etc).
Yes, this IS a more fast paced style for the players part. But, I can only speak for myself that after WoW, I'm used to it and others with practice *may* start to feel the rhythm of their attacks and cooldown times to where it just ain't no thang anymore. Keep trying before you toss in the towel.
But, if you just aren't into the speed of it regardless, then it will be a very tough call.
Picture icons and all that will get fixed eventually, even if takes awhile. I think that the system is solid enough to keep or bring back most fans who want to fight in a Star Wars MMORPG.
Note: I do agree with many who have said that the old system could have done for just a Balance and not a Balance and a cosmetic treatment. The only difference is that I happen to be alright with playing the game this way too, luckily for me. Sony could have done things differently to keep SWG more unique and less like WoW. But they didn't and I've given up wishing on what I hope Sony would do. For me, I'll keep playing as long as it's likable enough to play or a better Star Wars MMO comes along.
Also, colored crystals now add elemental damage based on the color of the crystal.
