Are We Alone in the Universe?

[X'an Shin]

And that story they put out, SETI scientist are excited because they found a signal in the same wavelength as hydrogen's reactions, and they say this is how anothery civilization would try to make contact..

how can they believe that, it would seem like that wouldbe soo hard to find, I mean If I wanted to make contact I would use something that would be noticed a bit easier, I think they are getting excited over nothing...

Well, consider that hydrogen is the most common element in the known universe, using hydrogen's wavelength (the rate at which it absorbs and reflects energy?) would seem the most common signal anyone would use (as it's the most common element). So it pretty much IS the easiest signal to find.

But know that SETI has so much data to process that they use people's screen savers as a way to use their computer's processor as a background data processor. They have SO MANY signals to sift through that they needed to recruit the population of Earth to form a sort of data rendering network. So finding a signal that can carry frequency a long way and is common enough to find is paramount. Otherwise they'd have too much data to sift through.

[X'an Shin]

SETI themselves have come out and discredited the media hype. Altough they were momentarily excited it does not pass the tests of being a signal that is at all intelligent or purposeful. The media of course blew it way out of proportion.

Waitaminute!!! The media blew something out of proportion??!?

GET. OUT.

I find this prospect entirely unbelieveable. ;)

[Gaaralow]

You know damn well I'm not saying that.

"Nothing" is the absence of anything, so it couldn't possably be "something". I think yer confusing "nothing" with "space". "Space" is not "nothing".

So basically there's a big wall of nothing? And nothing does not equal something? Then what's the wall made of?

Jabe

/shrug

I'm guessing it's made of girders, with a giant ape on top throwing barrels at you, as per Futurama's end of the universe.

[Rye]

oh i dont want my butt to be probed either

[Jerrel]

First off I'd like to say this is the most interesting posts on Jibber jAbber I've seen. Thanks for starting it.

The Drake Equation
1) Number of Stars in the Galaxy
2) Times by the percentage of Stars that contain worlds
3) Times by the percentage of Worlds that lie within the Habbital Zone
4) Times by the percentage of those Worlds where life has developed
5) Times by the percentage of those Worlds that would develope inteligent life
6) Times by the percentage of those Worlds that contain life capable of interstellar travel
7) Times by the percentage of the life span of a civilization divided by the age of the galaxy.

This isn't the exact Drake Equation but its very close (forgot exactly how parts 4 and 8 are worded). Now that the equation. There are approxamatly 400 billion stars in our galaxy alone so lets use 10% for the percentages all the way down. In the end that would give us 40000 different ETI's with in this galaxy alone.

Personally I think there is intelligent life out there. The Universe is way to vast for there not to be. At last count scientist have discovered over 100 worlds out side our own galaxy all be it they are the size of Jupiter or bigger (current meathods are incapable of detecting anything smaller). We have discovered life under the sea on top of volcanic vents where life was thought inpossible to thrive. The very definition of the requirments for life changes nearly every day. However I don not think we have been visited simply because of the distances involved. Is it possible? Yes but I dont believe we have been visited yet.
I do believe that hummanity is far older than any one thinks. We have simply lost any frefernce to civilizations older than 3000 b.c. After all the whole planet hasn't been escavated so there can be any number of lost civilizations laying in wait. And our ancestors are far smarter than we give credit. There is no chemical diffrence in the brain make-up of an ancient Egyptan and you or I. The potential for creative in ingenious ideas was with them as it is with us. And just because we cannot find an instruction manual on how to build a pryamid does not mean Admiral Ackbar forgot to leave us a copy.

One last thing, though I do have much more to add, just because there is no word other than pryamid for pryamid doesn't mean a thing. Should we assume that all language was handed to us from aliens because at one point there was no other word for word other than word, at one point there was no other word for was other than was, and at some point there was no other word for hyperdrive other than hyperdrive.

[Jabe Adaks]

/shrug

I'm guessing it's made of girders, with a giant ape on top throwing barrels at you, as per Futurama's end of the universe.

I am just givin ya a hard time. I am just out to show that its not any easier to prove the universe is finite. There is always +1.

Maybe when the Star trek MMOG comes out we'll know.

Jabe

[Keer]

I am just givin ya a hard time. I am just out to show that its not any easier to prove the universe is finite. There is always +1.

Maybe when the Star trek MMOG comes out we'll know.

Jabe

Dibs on the Sensor Station !!!

[Gaaralow]

/shrug

I'm guessing it's made of girders, with a giant ape on top throwing barrels at you, as per Futurama's end of the universe.

I am just givin ya a hard time. I am just out to show that its not any easier to prove the universe is finite. There is always +1.

Maybe when the Star trek MMOG comes out we'll know.

Jabe

I do appreciate the hard time, but I'm just saying that the universe has been observed and measured, nothing outside it. By defination, for something to exist, it has to be real, it has to have verifiable existence. Since there's no verifiable existence of anything beyond the universe, nothing exists beyond.

Up 'till recently the universe was definded as everything "out there", but that defination has changed since modern science evolved. Even before that, our universe was just our earth, moon, and sun. Right now, with the finding of the wall, since we cannont verify any matter or energy beyond it, all that is inside is considered our universe.

There isn't always a +1 either. For every +1 there's a -1. Good thing this discussion ain't about math.

[Jabe Adaks]

I do appreciate the hard time, but I'm just saying that the universe has been observed and measured, nothing outside it. By defination, for something to exist, it has to be real, it has to have verifiable existence. Since there's no verifiable existence of anything beyond the universe, nothing exists beyond.

It seems that what is "nothing" is a matter of opinion and therefore so is the definition of the infinite. I personally think that nothing is something; whether it is just an emptiness beyond what we know or simply a wall that is infinitely thick. Perhaps to me "nothing" just doesn't exist? I am not sure about that either. But I relent, based on the fact that our arguments come down to differeing opinions on the definition of nothing.

There isn't always a +1 either. For every +1 there's a -1. Good thing this discussion ain't about math.

Ah, but there in lies the next point, I think the universe expands infinitely inward as well. We once thought that the atom was the smallest particle until we split one and found out nature didn't react kindly to that. So what do we call the peice of a split atom? And what if we could split those peices as well?

My feeling is the answer we seek can be found in either direction: the inward search of what we are made of or the outwards reach to the end of what we know is real. I think in the end we will find that the universe is as simple as the explanation as to why Columbus did not fall off the planet. And why he could, in theory, have kept going around forever until he reached where he started again.

The circle... When pie is solved, I will accept the universe as finite.

Jabe