SPLIT: Issues with Action Scenes

[Jabe Adaks]

Well Coiyonite got his ass beat... AGAIN.

By Norel... AGAIN.

Who happened to show up buffed... AGAIN.

Had his rancor sitting out in front of the joint... AGAIN.

So I give up on unfolding my event with any level of realism. Since some people are intent with being invincible and I am not going to grind an NPC to master tka...

/throws towel in...

Jabe

[Viceroy Odantis]

the straw broke for me tonight folks.

Glad to see so many others had a good time, but i put a lot of buildup and work into some rp that was set for tonight...and it worked perfectly...had other even bothered to reacted to it....

i don't know how to roleplay with some of these people...obviously we come from different "schools" of how to rp...i'd try to politely ask on here how they wanna go about things...but last time i did that it got me flamed and a thread locked...i'm starting to think i just don't fit in, 2 sides can both be good people and have no chance of getting along.

[Ekade]

It sounds like people are having issues with how their action scenes are playing out.

I welcome a discussion on this, as long as it is contstructive and civil. You know how to behave.

This is a hot topic, but it can be dealt with logically. So have at it.


Good:
"I don't think all roleplayers are on the same page as to how action RP scenes are resolved. I have an idea that might help the situation..."

Bad:
"Player X is blah blah, because blah blah. I hope people would stop sucking so much ass and be more like me"

Got it?

Good.

/discuss on

[Keer]

So I give up on unfolding my event with any level of realism. Since some people are intent with being invincible and I am not going to grind an NPC to master tka...

/throws towel in...

Jabe

Waaaaait! Please reconsider, bud. You sound pretty mad about it and I can't speak on as to why because I don't know the full deal. But, don't make absolute decisions when you're pissed. Cool off and think about it. Of course, I have my own selfish reasons because I've been anxious to see how your event was going to come off since you made your mysterious post a couple weeks back.

How can we fix the problem?

the straw broke for me tonight folks.

Glad to see so many others had a good time, but i put a lot of buildup and work into some rp that was set for tonight...and it worked perfectly...had other even bothered to reacted to it....

Again. What happenned? In detail. And let's try to fix it together. That's what this site is all about.

For my part, I saw your decoy take a fall and then you popped up across the pavillion in front of the Roba. In my mind, I thought "Now that was slick!"

But, as far as Keer's RP reaction, I was intrigued and stood by for a while observing nonchalantly. But a Smuggler's not going to butt in, speak up, or make an issue of himself in the business of the 2-3 Bounty Hunters that were on your case. At least not the way that I play a Smuggler.

Same thing for inside the club when Griggs made his shakedown. I would have liked to have stood there, soaking up every word, but I thought
"Get your crook out of here. He should be easing his way out the "back door"." So that's what I did. I did hang around the immediate area in a spy spot taking in as much spatial as I could, though. For my own curiousity and Keer's. He needed to know the "word on the street".

So personally, I did notice your episode, Alonzo. But, I had to be true to my character. I'm not saying that you don't have legitimate beef to cook with the overall reaction, but as Ekade said, let's get to work.

[Dwilah]

While so many people in this community rely on the element of surprise for their events, there's so much frustration lately with some plot lines that it might be time to consider playing down the surprise in favor of "wow! What a cool plot!" when things run well.

I was 'brought up' (so to speak) in RP environments where plots/scenes where discussed and hashed out before actually running them. Those were a little more controlled than Galaxies--but maybe something leaning a little more towards this could be helpful in our community.

A simple /tell asking someone, "Hey--I'm going to be attacking your butt in a minute. You've always got pets out and I need to beat your ass down even though technically you can probably kick my ass. Can you please like, throw the fight for the sake of RP?" And it can go both ways.

The problems in "action RP" lie in that people have a lot of pride in this game, and people have ongoing plots of their own. They don't want to sacrifice their pride and throw a fight and get beat down. There's a thrill that goes along with being able to defeat people fair and square in a ring. (I enjoy being able to throw little zinger poisons in the rare events of duels...I get my ass beat but poison and disease are funny to watch as revenge.) And of course there's people running their own events. This can lead them to want to just be "okay, let's get this over with" or whatever. Maybe they feel like their character should be invincible except by only certain people because of the plot they have running.

Anyway...my point is, just a simple, polite /tell can go a long way. Maybe it kills some of the surprise, but surprise isn't EVERYTHING. Even if you just call time out briefly when you find out person xx is buffed and wants to kick your ass and talk to them quietly in /tells, that could work.

The key to remember here, people, is that everyone's got plots and we all want our own to work. Even if we have to be beat down sometimes, we gotta help each other out. If you don't see somebody actively participating in your event that you want to be--send them a /tell. Say hey, I've got fun stuff over here...and pizza! (Well maybe not pizza.)

I'm gunna shut up before this post gets longer.

[Ekade]

Dwilah's post brings to light a few problems with what I will refer to as "Action Scenes".

Action scenes in PnP are very regulated. Action scenes in SWG are not as the game mechanics are insufficient to allow for fair resolution of conflict.

There is 1 GM in PnP action scenes. In SWG, many people are their own GM and player. It works better when people submit to the will of one GM for a particular event or scene.


What happens when there are 2 opposing parties, as in Zo versus Bounty Hunters?

Perhaps as Dwilah said, the ground rules are spelled out in advance. Sure this might be less "free form", but hopefully it cuts down on the undesirable results.

Another suggesting is this... have someone officiate your action scene. A "neutral" GM. Many of us have GM'd PnP games and know how to do this.

Example: Droid Zo blows up bounty hunters. They ignore it. GM intervenes and tells then what happens. "Bounty Hunter 1 and 2 are unconcious and bleeding. Bounty Hunter 3, you are badly wounded but still concious. I suggest you drag your companions to the Med Center." End of encounter.

Let me know what you think about that idea.

[Dwilah]

I think a big problem with that, Ekade, is to be a fair GM you'd have to know the abilities of all parties involved and the results could be hotly disputed and ignored anyway.

The key to any resolution is going to be people laying down their pride for the sake of good RP and being helpful and courteous to each other.

[Keer]

I think that both Dwilah and Ekade are actually in agreement with each other give or take a few words.

Ekade says have a GM be the final word. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that she's implicating that the players will submit to this idea before hand wherever the chips fall.

Dwilah is saying that we as players should take the initiative to cooperate with each others' plots, thus putting the "main character" in the driver's seat, putting pride and ego to the side for the sake of a good RP story.

In essence, I see these as more or less the same idea. Except maybe the minor point that the GM is not Neutral in one case, but a player. Still, the results would be the same. Those are, going along with a designated person's will for the sake of a (hopefully) good story.

And just to show there's no hypocrisy here, I've let my character get beat down and humiliated for the sake of a great story/episode. It was a great intuitive experience. Sepiv, Sacerdos, and Dewbacca never sent me a /tell asking if it was okay for Keer to be choked-to-kneeling, but it fit the situation and I glady did it. Same thing when Nyase as MP-lOl shook Keer down in a Cantina.

Are there any other voices on this?

[Novall]

I think a big problem with that, Ekade, is to be a fair GM you'd have to know the abilities of all parties involved and the results could be hotly disputed and ignored anyway.

The key to any resolution is going to be people laying down their pride for the sake of good RP and being helpful and courteous to each other.

Dwilah is very right about this. We all have an image of what we think our characters should be, and we want them to be that no matter what. Some of us are protective of our characters...and have ego's about them. I fall into that catagory as well as some others. Alot of my own problem is because after you've played a "supreme" power character for a good amount of time, it gets harder to lose or let yourself not be on top. This is a problem that I am slowly overcoming, so if I do seem rather overbearing at times...just over look it.

I'm not the greatest PvPer, I'm a true blood Rper. Even with the best weapons credits can buy, and multiple master elite professions, its still hard for me to pull off alot of jobs. I'm used to having armies of players fighting for me...not 1 on 1 confrontation. One thing I found early on in my RP life was that people will fight for something they can see. Words show little, actions show more, but if you can combine your words with actions...then people will follow and help you.

Yes, I want to be on top...mainly because I've been there before and theres still a pull to being that again.

I appologize Zo for some of the things I've said to you. Were both alot alike really, and I see that now. You are were I was at one time, and its not easy seeing someone else in that spot. Even if it is a different game.

People always seem to irk me when they way *Its just a game!*. Its still time out of someone's life...even if it is *just a game!*

I will do a better job at playing nice.

What we need is a kinda "rule" set for streight RP that everyone recognizes. We had that on Sonoma between all the RP guilds and non guilded RPers. If anyone had a beef, we had a forum where the complaint was brought up and discussed till a resolution was found.

Anyhow, thats all I have to say.

[Viceroy Odantis]

basically my problem is, people want to ignore the game mechanic restrictions when it suits them...and apply them when it aids them...

Those who know zo in full battle mode...

do i ever get beat? I mean super rare....

I don't want to be that invincible as i "really" am though.

However on the flip side...

if i'm unbuffed...due to how ham costs work and swordsman....i cannot fight...one swing and i kill myself...i cannot win unbuffed...

now the type of rp i like to do...doesn't recognize "buffs"...there isn't some magic doctor thing that makes you a god for 3 hours....

now....

I cannot be beaten buffed, i cannot win unbuffed....now if i wanna be an ass i'll just never show up to anything unbuffed....but last night i didn't do that because i thought my "plot" worked to perfection.

Instead it got ignored...makes me wonder why i spent two weeks letting peopel see the droid, so it would be more believable and dind't feel like something i did to "cheese" out myself.

Here's my major problem...

i like these people...

i don't dislike the people who do these things, its just apparently they style their rp differently...but it can't get along....i mean i don't wanna throw a hissy fit when someone beats zo...but no one has in my opinion...

i mean when i'm begging people to "please think of a plan, don't march in where my guards are and throw down"

that's me trying to give thema chance because i know if i play hard, they can't beat me in pvp 99% of the time.

[Ringo Montgomery]

I think Novall brought up some really good points, as did Dwilah and Ekade. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and have come the realization that almost everyone has the 'tough guy' character it seems. A lot of people appear to be unable to check their character's ego at the door for RP sake, and that gets under my skin.

I've seen a few examples of people throwing themselves on the line for spontaneous RP, only to have someone unable to pick up on it and kick the ever living shit out of them. Its too bad really. I don't want to point fingers and I don't want to name names, but I've seen it happen on more than a couple occasions now.

I think other than Dwilah's rule of a quick tell, the only other way to avoid this kind of stuff happening is just to be an observer if you have no idea whats going on. Don't just jump into the fray everytime you see an RP storyline in the works. I mean, a lot of the people here are bounty hunters and smugglers; you're supposed to lie low, to watch from a distance and then make your moves.

I can understand the tough guy role a lot, and every RP scenario needs it; however, even the tough guys have to bend a bit every now and then. Don't get me wrong, a lot of people here are really good at keeping RP as a priority and keeping their character in check, but a few people just can't seem to grasp the concept of letting things play out and not getting involved.

[Raevas Kreig]

I'd think of "action" rp scenes like if I was watching wrestling on TV. Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair are like the two "greatest" champs of all time, yet they were always getting beat and losing to other guys ("16-time champ just means 15-time loser.") It's all just a story.

The fight/duel/whatever is a tool to advance a story or plot at it's most basic function and that's all it is. Everyone has a character, and sure, when you're RPing a criminal/BH or some such, you tend to naturally play a "tough guy" role. But everyone needs to remember that there's only one Han Solo so-to-speak. Not everyone can be invincible. Not everyone can be a hero all the time.

I play my character as a tough guy, but he's no bounty hunter. He's a thug. He steals things, sabotages stuff, and he beats people up. He does general criminal-type things, but killing tends to not be one of them. He's no superhero, despite his amazing TK skills and toughness (though his confidence and bravado may say otherwise). He's just a guy. Flesh and bone. He tries not to get into confrontations because a lot of people tend to bring guns to fistfights and he's not very good with a blaster. He's no assassin. Just a goon. He's more guile than Rambo. He knows when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em, when to walk away, and when to run.

Nor would he stick his nose in anyone else's RP scene. It's not his style. He cares nothing for anyone else's business but his own, so he won't get involved in anything he sees, lest he get dragged into it, or sees some vital interest for himself in doing so. But, should the need arise, he'll fight for an RP purpose, but he'll do it realistically. He'll take a whupping if the situation warrants it, or even if that's just how it turns out. If he's outnumbered, maybe he'll just run away and jump on his swoop like a big wuss. Either way -- win, lose, or draw -- the story goes on from there. Did I win? Did I die? How? Why? Do I have bragging rights or did I learn a lesson? Did I get involved in something I shouldn't have? Where does the story go from there?

When it comes to RP, there's no shame in ending up on your back looking at the sky. It's not "just a game," it's "just a story." The scene plays out the way it does or should and that's that. Move on. Maybe even get revenge later. Just play on. It's not about ego, it's just about storytelling.

[Dwilah]

Either way -- win, lose, or draw -- the story goes on from there. Did I win? Did I die? How? Why? Do I have bragging rights or did I learn a lesson? Did I get involved in something I shouldn't have? Where does the story go from there?

When it comes to RP, there's no shame in ending up on your back looking at the sky. It's not "just a game," it's "just a story." The scene plays out the way it does or should and that's that. Move on. Maybe even get revenge later. Just play on. It's not about ego, it's just about storytelling.

/applaud

Bravo. EXACTLY.

No matter what ends up happening to your character, you can RP it out as part of your character's continuing story and personality. It's not just "my character will kick your butt" but I think one thing people forget to ask themselves is "how would my character react to this? How would they really?"

[Viceroy Odantis]

i have to disagree, sorry but i can't rp "oh i died...well...uhm...i guess i'm....magically not dead now..."

sorry but cloning is the game's excuse for rezzing, its not legal in this time period, its not doable in the sense it happens in game, i'm not acting like death is only an inconvienience.


So that's why i kinda get at ends with bounty hunters...

but i tell ya right now...

i'll do a deathmatch anytime....

and by that i mean loser really dies...delete char, reroll...i've had alonzo since launch and i'd do this.

Don't think many would though, and they shouldn't ahve to....

but you tell me how to resolve this without being cheesy to a level i'm not gonna do. I mean...forget it i'm not RPing a miracle ressurection every other day.

This is why i have a problem with the Bh's...i can beat them 50 times...but they wanna keep trying and if they finally get me "haha i won" its like...yeah...i CAN"T KILL YOU...so i'm not gonna die myself.


Anyway this is my major problem with BH storylines....

nevermind i give them a chance every time for the sake of fun by NOT making them fight my 10 guards i usually have...nevermind that i'll fight unarmored if they catch me unarmored when they get there...even if they have armor...

sure that's because i know i'm pretty good at pvp...but its fighting a BH in godmode..they have infinite lives...and only have to get me once to rp "winning" that's why i think its BS and i am to the point like i told dwilah and ekade that i just won't RP anymore.

[Jabe Adaks]

I fixed my problems in an event that actually ran tonight. I used inside characters in two guilds to establish a guild war. I showed up with greater numbers and before the targets could even wonder why they were targetable, we wiped them out.

Problem solved.

Jabe