Complaint about 'orgy' at Roba

[Ekade]

I have some thoughts on the complaint about the "orgy' at the Roba.

Several times Dwilah has mentioned to me that "someone" has seen "someone" doing "something" at the Roba "some time" that has offended them "somehow". I decided we should address this as a group as we are a community and I would like your feedback, and this is a forum. While I appreciate being made aware of this, the incompleteness of the information makes it essentially useless to me. Most of the time Roba is simply a social party. There is little I can do about a vague reference to an event that bothered "someone".

Personally, I will not get into the business of policing the actions of others. Did someone's actions go beyond the realm of good taste? Well, good taste is defined by the individual so there is really no way to answer this. If we knew the specific action that offended a person, perhaps we could have a more focused discussion on it.

All I ask is that people don't grief. By "grief' I mean engage in actions that purposefully reduce the enjoyment of another player. If someone is doing something that bothers you, let them know and/or use the /addignore feature.

I have yet to see an act of affection at the Roba that is would consider an act of griefing.

I wonder if the person who was so appalled was on his way to, or just coming back from, his or her killing of hundreds of beings.

Rampant slaughter is cool. Making out at a bar is appalling.


What is offensive?
Holding hands?
Kissing?
Kissing passionately?
Slapping an imperial officer?
Slapping a woman?
Pistol whipping a woman and dragging her off?
A man and a woman dancing closely?
A woman and a woman dancing closely?
A man and a man dancing closely?
Ogling a dancer?
Groping a dancer?
A dancer ogling and groping a dancer?
Drinking?
Getting drunk and verbally abusing someone?
Getting drunk and physically abusing someone?
Killing a human being in a video game?
Killing hundreds of human beings in a video game?


Thanks for reading and let me know your thoughts. If there is a problem that I am not seeing, please help me to see it.

[Dwilah]

The people I've heard this from were not so specific as what you're asking for, Ekade, and as I said last night, people use strong words when they're upset by something. They might call it an orgy, but that doesn't mean that they walked in on one.

I've heard this three seperate times, from people who've visited our events, specifically the Roba. One was visiting from another server and was very uncomfortable by the level of physicality in the emoting, and decided not to try and join the RPing community due to that and the intensity with which we all RPed in general (too immersive for this person). I can't contact them to ask them your questions, because honestly, it was a few months ago and I've forgotten the server they went back to.

The other two people have been people I've seen at our events before, and so I recognized them, but didn't give specific instances of emoting. The person I met last night, I simply questioned as to why he had "RPer hater" marked in his bio and he mentioned the Roba and the "orgy" thing freaking him out. If you suspect my encounters as false, I'll go find this guy, see if he'll let me interview him more thoroughly and post his name, etc. etc. I wasn't asking him at the time for that kind of info, just a why do you hate RPers, why were you freaked out? Okay, thanks.

As I said clearly to Ekade last night, I don't mention this as a suggestion anyone change their playstyle. I simply think it's important to be aware of how we can affect newcomers to the community with our characters' visible behavior. A person brand new to one of our events may also be turned off by meeting with a rough or callous pirate or mercenary that's cold in nature to strangers--but they're just playing in-character.

As a community that's always seeking to grow, these comments (just comments, not someone sitting down with me and talking at length) concern me enough to mention it as something to simply keep in mind for all of us--how does our RPing affect newcomers? We won't be able to please everyone, I just think that it's important to keep in mind. Something that's been mentioned a few times over the past few months--not a continual stream of complaints--is enough to make me simply consider it as food for thought.

[Zannon]

I think the biggest problem we face as roleplayers is bad press. A lot of people lump RPers into a group of sexual deviants. I know when I first started playing SWG there was a lot of overtly sexually deviant behavior going on. What I've seen at the Roba and what not, I feel, is by no means offensive. I think the greater problem is that, at least on Gorath, there has been a stigma attached to RPing that is perpetuated by rumors and assumptions. People see "a social RP event" and automatically assume it's some sort of in-character orgy. Hell, I RP having a relationship with Dwilah and am constantly faced with people who assume that there is something sexual going on there. Is it true, do they have any proof, have they ever seen anything that would lead them to this assumption? No, but they have no problems assuming it and making flippant remarks.

I've seen people post on the SOE boards and even in their profiles in game that they hate RPers...none of which I have ever seen at one of our events. Why do they hate us? I think its just because they assume the worst.

My advice is, be aware that people do think that way and just ignore them. I do.

[Keer]

I wonder if the person who was so appalled was on his way to, or just coming back from, his or her killing of hundreds of beings.

Rampant slaughter is cool. Making out at a bar is appalling.

As more than a few of you know, I've ridden the sex vs. violence horse for awhile. This is not to dig in spurs on that ride, but I'd say Ekade has a point. It should be put in perspective against other actions in the game.

When I see a Jedi or two "saber up" in some spots, I mostly ignore it unless it's fitting into some semblance of RP. If two, three, or several characters are getting it on in some cantina corner I'd probably ignore that too under the same conditions.

I don't know, it's all in personal preference, but as long as I'm not getting tells or spatial sent my way asking for cyber after I've already refused, I can only turn my face, maybe ask them to take it to a private spot, and keep on RP'ing.

My humble take.

[Ekade]

Just to clarify, I am not questioning the credibility of the complaint. I am just looking for more information so I can better assess the issues.

[E-bo Obi]

I know what it was! Its because we all grabbed each others butts that one night!

But seriously. I think that most people keep any, what some would considerder overt, sexual behaviour in a private setting. I don't remember seeing anything at any of the roba nights I went to that crossed the line of what is commonly acceptable behavior.

I think the problem stems back to the fact that the US was basically founded by Quakers.

Just my take. Two female characters kissing could be considered an orgy by some people I suppose.

Lets take this a step further. 3 people were bothered by something yet the roba is packed almost every week? Something wrong with our thinking on this if you ask me. Seems we are doing something right but we can't please everyone.

There is really no way to resolve this issue without knowing exactly what is was that upset these individuals. And I find it annoying that people show up for one event and base their entire take on a community off of that.

[Seret Sajet]

Ekade I'm afraid you might be taking on an impossible task. There is no way to really gauge everyone's levels of comfort in a physical situation and at the same time determine what is acceptable and what is not.

Personally I feel if you can emote it in the game then it is acceptable. I don't care if its two girls kissing or two guys kissing it do not bother me. These are facts in our real lives and for me personally I prefer to embrace acceptance and tolerance rather than shun those things that might make me feel uncomfortable.

But Zannon nailed it on the head. Bad press is really where a lot of complaints stem from. Imagine you're Joe Schmo Toon and you read about the cyber sexing going on in-game. You then show up to an event and see a couple people being affectionate. Chances are Joe's brain immediately assumes those people are having sex behind closed doors. That doesn't leave much room for acceptance.

So overall here's my take on it. If I got to a club and I see two guys kissing will I leave? No. Does it make me feel comfortable to watch? No. Is it wrong? No. If they have sex on the dance floor is it wrong? Yes. So the simple answer is ignore it, have fun and move on if it bothers you. As long as the more explicit and adult behavior stays behind doors then there really isn't much room to call it grief. As long as it stays tasteful (even if some people don't accept certain lifestyles) it is something we all have to accept in our community.

[Sai'nu]

I think it just stims from the fact that most of the complainers don't realize that this is our way of expressing 'your safe with us' as it were. That's just my two cents. People are going to have their own points of view about things though; that can't be helped.

[Weyune]

I don't think these people have any room to complain. NO one is forcing them to stay in the Roba and watch behavior that offends them. Seret is right. Everyone has a choice as to where they want to go in the game. This community is made up of mature and responsible people, and I don't believe anyone would ever do any kind of 'play' in public places that should and IS kept in private houses.

What they have to understand is that if we are trying to duplicate the equivalent of something seen in real life, like a night club, then things are going to go on. In real life people who don't care to see those kind of things make a choice not to go to them. Places like that, there is kissing petting, flirting going on all around, but people usually know where to draw the line, or they get in trouble. Its the same with the events like the Roba, no? As a community of mature people, we also know where to draw the line and try to tell people they have a choice.

[Jabe Adaks]

I missed an orgy? Damn...

Jabe

[Isleh]

Some points I would like to make about this.

#1 - You can't please everyone so there is no sense in trying.

#2 - There are people who's only goal is to cause grief.

#3 - It is most likely that I am one of the offending people. Color me guilty. I find that what I've emoted in the past is in no way offensive to a mature adult that I would want anything to do with in RL. Simply put. I don't give a damn about a person who would, for instance, find 2 women kissing offensive. However...

#4 - I think it's due to the over all level of maturity of the people that I RP with that I tend to forget that there are children playing SWG and it is very possible that a RL child could wander into the Roba. I wouldn't drag a 10 year old into a strip bar and by posting and soliciting for new RPers to come to the Roba and then me emoting something wild while there... I could very well be doing that. For now on, I will keep my public emotes PG-13 and only go wild in private and at events clearly posted for adults.

[warsloth]

Some people find something wrong with everything.

Some people may see something that they deem to be wrong, cover their eyes, and run screaming.
Others may see something and ignore it just as keer said.

anyone who has been to a club, or even a bar, knows that things get pretty raunchy.
The Roba has a Bar, and live entertainment. Hmmm... last place I was at like that I witnessed Females making out, drunks bumbling around, etc.
It's crazy that RP would emulate reality... only a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
I can see a reason to keep things tamed down in some of the intro events. But I can also see that this is just like life, and the real world.

A lot of the things we may see in the game may be understood to represent something present in Real life. We aren't children.
I must tell you, that even upstanding people know the grim reality of the world, and they walk through it every day, and sometimes they make it their job to face it. Perhaps to change it.
These complaints are from people who are too inexperienced with life to realize this.
And tearing people down will get you no-where.

[Jabe Adaks]

SWG as a game in itself is rated "Teen". PG-13 should be considered "ok" by just about anybody. If it was really a concern as to what happens in the game, SOE could certainly have a word filter and have some kind of "sex alarm" go off in some old executive's office when there is a problem of people "getting it on."

As far as people having a problem with flirty emotes and there being "haters" out there, I don't care. Screw the haters.

Jabe

PS. It is my personal belief that there probably is a sex alarm at SOE and that a squad of storm troopers raids the server room and starts firing at the network cables that come from your connection whenever you have sex. Hence, the reason SWG has "lag" - you only have lag when someone is having sex and stormies are shooting the servers. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Jaminos]

Well I try to keep out of peoples buisness in such things. I have no problem with people doing somthing like having fun with wife or husband, but it should be somewhere where you will not be in front of people. Alot of people take it personaly. Just think of yourself in that kinda postion IRL. You are not going to take your pants off at walmart and have your way with your spouce. It is somthing that I think should be done away from people and lept to you and the other.


I think though doing something other in public like having your way with your spouce should not be done soo much. I do not mind and pay little attention to when people do do it. But when this event is posted every week on the forums I think you should avoid doing something as such unless you are away from people. The Jaminos dose is kiss and hold hands in public anything elles is left away from people to be considerate as well as it is not anyones buisness what I do at those times. Do not think I do something like that all the time. It is something used only a little bit and not used every chance you get.

Anyhow my overall veiw is I keep out of peoples buisness when it happens, and make sure it dose not happen in something public such as that.

[warsloth]

so Jabe, you mean people are having sex all the time?? O-o