TTF vs. Salous

[toront]

A line in one of Skorixor's responses to my Roba post got me thinking today at work. In reference to my comment on MCI, he said he had an idea of what is going on. I don't believe I've even ever met Skor in game, and I doubt he regularly speaks to TTF because of our "reputation". This got me concerned as I realize he likely heard only Salous' side of the things that went down earlier this week.

I was not planning on posting an explanation of these events. What happened was to prove a point for our guild and specifically our leading members: Alonzo, Malchiah and I. However, for fear that only one side of the story is being told, I will share.

To begin we go back to when Salous was first kicked out of TTF, back in 2003 sometime. He put an enemy on the guild terminal or incited a guild to war TTF. Alonzo found this guild on the enemy list and wanted to get more info before accepting. However, he closed the Accept/Decline window by using the right hand corner X. Accept was highlighted and by closing the box, it was the same as accepting. Once he realized the mistake, he contacted members of the guild to try and end it and understand. In the meantime, Salous began attacking members and killing them, which lead to the guild coming to our PA Hall and killing our members. Salous caused trouble for the entire guild and our crafters, and was booted by Alonzo. Just giving this info as background to understand why Salous dislikes Alonzo.

Fast forward to a few months ago and Salous returned to the game, and wanted back in TTF. With Alonzo gone to adamantly say no, Malchiah and I felt it would be okay to give a second chance. Salous immediately wanted to push TTF more rebel, being less covert and neutral as we had always been. I explained that any activities we did would be strictly covert, to maintain a neutral front. (As an aside, TTF remains neutral. We have rebel and imperial supporters in our ranks and our members are free to choose. I know that the majority of our leading members are Imperial, but this is more a function of convenience when we go do mass PvP.)

Salous seemed to decide at some point to start his own organization. At first it was within the guild (which I felt made little sense, as we already had an in-guild faction with Trade-Sec). It soon became clear that this was a setup to start his own guild. He proceeded to ask nearly all members of our guild to leave and join him. This was all done without any notice to Malchiah or myself. If he wanted to make an "overt" rebel rp guild, that was fine. I would even forward a recruiting mail to members of TTF if they felt restricted by our covert/neutral ideals. It was the method of trying to sneak members out the backdoor that really pissed me off.

So we had an off again, on again relationship IC, while I am sure that we both disliked each other OOC. Then I began to hear rumors and whispers that Salous is going around and bad-mouthing TTF, and not just in character, but out of character, insulting the people behind the toons of Alonzo and myself.

Now, there are a few things in life that really irk me. People that smile to your face and stab you in the back are one of those things. At times, we got nothing but smiles and respect from Salous toon to toon, yet we continued to hear that Salous was bad-mouthing us. Enter Alonzo Odantis and his alt, Sitnado Oznola. Salous mentioned a few times that he had spies within our ranks, so we decided to do him one better.

Sitnado was soon enough a member of MCI, and he quickly began gaining ranks in their guild rank system. Then, on a fateful day last week, Salous invited him to his teamspeak. They talked about several things, and Sitnado managed to casually bring up TTF and some of our members. Thanks to the teamspeak record feature, we have audio of Salous running his mouth on our guild, on me, on Alonzo (saying it to Alonzo himself, which was just too funny) and even on people in his own guild as well as Novall and MERCS.

While it would perhaps have been better to wait and go for the slow burn on revealing Sitnado, we were feeling a little empowered and brash, so I grabbed a group of TTF and headed to Nocturnus. Without a plan, we raided a cantina in the name of the "alliance" we had with MCI and began roaming the streets drunk looking for an MCI member to complain to about the service. It was within a RP sense. IC and OOC I considered any alliance with Salous to be a sham, so I was here IC to exploit it, just looking for a fight. Salous was telling all his members to ignore us, as "we don't roleplay". I guess this wasn't in Salous' script for that day, so it doesn't count as roleplay. Sitnado decided to confront us anyway and was quite rude. I beat him in a duel and told him to take me to Salous, outraged that Sitnado had spit on me and slapped me before the duel. Sitnado refused, so I decided to kill him to get Salous' attention. I began getting angry tells saying we don't roleplay, all he tried to do was help TTF, we have an alliance (despite the fact that on teamspeak 30mins ago, he said the alliance was a sham and he wanted to war TTF). So Sitnado and I went over to MCI headquarters. After Sitnado got Salous to name him his best combatant in MCI (a little ego boost that I don't really understand, but hey, it was Alonzo's thing), we began spamming "Alonzo Odantis" "Sitnado Oznola" a few times to what I'm sure was shock on Salous' face.

I realize that we did take a somewhat low road approach to the entire thing, but it was much more fun than just flat out ignoring Salous. I know some of you will laugh at what we did, and I'm sure a few of you will dislike me and TTF. I feel better in at least sharing my piece and expect Salous to refute or argue what I've said. I just wanted to make sure my side was out there to be heard. Besides, it proved its point to Alonzo, myself and our guild that Salous was running his mouth on us, which was all we wanted. You all have the ability to now make up your own minds, rather than hear it only from Salous' point of view.

Thank you.

[Viceroy Odantis]

I would like to add that following me being a spy salous did the following:

Cussed out everyone like a child

Contacted Rebecca...someone who vouged for Sitnado IC (didn't knwo it was my alt so it wasn't on purpose to lie) and cussed her out, all OOC

Had Duox's guild war ttf, with the hopes of clone camping our crafters...it should be noted within a 5 minute conversation with Duox and offering him screenshots and the audio feed, he retracted the war and stated that salous was being a child as well.



These are some salous QUOTES i have screenshots of:

(these are all /tells and meant to be ooc)

Salous:"I am something this rp game has never seen"

me:"Is this spying thing with ttf ooc or rp?"
Salous:"For me, there is no ooc or rp, they are one and the same"

me: "So this hatred of toront and alonzo...is that ooc or what?"
Salous: "They are both pricks, shitty leaders and pricks"


What did we do to salous? did not allow him to be the main character and control our guild...poor guy



Now with all being said: I don't have a problem with most MCI, its salous...he has serious mental issues that he cannot separate IC and OOC...i'm not flaming i'm being serious...that needs psychiatric help.

Most of MCI knows he's full of it too, and make fun of him often, so we know most of them are legit guys...they probably out of raw loyalty to their guild, dislike me (i did spy) but keep in mind our spying was done AFTER they openly bragged of having spies in our guild...which by the way we know who they are and here's the big shocker....we don't care....what secrets do we have? oh yeah...we don't talk about people behind their back OOC...if we plot and scheme its for RP only...this one exception being to prove salous is full of it and flat out insane.

Now, i have been called an elitist by many people on this forum several times....everytime i question something i am called out for it for my "tone" and such

We're not elitists...we just believe in realistic RP...we don't believe in sending a /tell going "no dude, don't have your guards fight me when i attakc you...its for my storyline" if you want to attack someone who has 4 guards...you damn well better /duel thsoe guards or you will first get a warning, and secondly a ban from the roba.

Now i find it funny, at one point we are told the roba is not what it once was....yet the only thing that changed was me (the supreme elitist jerk) warning and banning people....its ok..i'm back...Salous is banned (not MCI) and when ic atch people NOT rping they will be asked politely to do so....if i see people rping badly (and this means breaking realism, not being a bad actor) i will do the same. The first warning is polite...usually followed by a less polite warning, then a ban from the roba.

As far as jedi knight....i do oppose this....if i were on it would not have happened....i know toront is just itching for pvp...malch loves pvp too...several of our members do....but i do believe my bud was a little off in bringing a jedi battle there...especially when it started involving non-rpers


I'm sorry that you guys don't like imperial crackdowns though, but this is the timeline that the Empire is strong in....there IS an imperial presence...for you rebels...if the empire isn't oppressing you...why fight them so much? However, i understand the same ol thing gets old....but i have yet to see this happen and people who i know never miss the roba say it hasn't happened. Of course if you do not like the roba, you always have the option of not attending.

I have at a long time felt like an enemy of this forum rather than a member, my guild is constantly under attack. Maybe its aclash of egos i don't know.

I do know this: the roba was around before this site...i personally built it. I got the band together. I paid them out the ass to make sure they'd be there...I put up with Pisces (for those who remember) and i got the crowds there...when everyone laughed...i was there...when 2 people showed up during week 2...i was there...being mocked....but i was also there the 3rd and 4th weeks when the place was FLOODED. Now, of course i could not have succeeded in my goal without the people showing up, the band showing up, etc...but it was all put into motion by me, alone both financially and effort-wise...even the band and my own guild were skeptical and my guild told me i wa scrazy to pay them as much as i did (50k for the headliner, 35k per master musician) Keep in mind i was NEVER rich and until i finally ran out of funds i paid the band several hundred thousand a week to show up...i did it all to provide an rp element we could all enjoy. All of this without the wagging finger of swgtales telling me i was an elitist...

I love many of you guys as individuals...but some people on this board need to remember that this is supposed to be for the entire RP community and I am not the only member of my guild that has CONSTANTLY felt like the enemy to the group that frequents this forum. We are constantly told how the roba should be (our event), we are told we are elitists, etc etc.

Well i'm sorry, we take pride in the fact we are the oldest guild on Gorath...RP or Otherwise...we take pride in the fact that we NEVER dropped our RP only status and though of course you get people who rp around their guildies only to find out they act like idiots later...we remove those when we find them though...but all in all we have never broke down, we have never faltered from our goals of created and enjoying an immersive rp environment. Do not mistake pride for elitism. NEVER will we tell someone they are not good enough at RP to join us. We often train young Rpers...or Non-rpers into rpers only to watch them leave...and we encourage them. What we do NOT support are self serving, main character wannabes who use the word "RP" just to give themselves a powertrip while doing whatever they like.

Good day

PS: One side note about "rp quality" that salous says we lack...as many of you know my alt does not speak a language in the game..the reality is i haven't decided what it really is because the second i do someone will go "i speak that" and i like the fun of playing a toon no one understands....on SEVERAL occasions salous would send me a tell "tell me what you are saying so i can understand in tells", i would reply "but your character wouldn't know....so you don't understand him...play accordingly" and he'd just end up asking again later "tell me what your language is so I can speak it, no one has to understand it but me and you"

He also asked me to work as a spy for him against TTF, he also talked about other guilds liek MERCS and against his own members...the man has serious mental issues and uses "RP" as a disguise for some weird ego-trip

[Skorixor]

for the third time, I am stating that it is what I HEARD about what happened at the roba, not what DID happen, because I wasn't there

The fact of the matter is I'm hearing two different stories, that is all...

Which one is true, which one is a lie, I don't know or care, but I bet the truth lies somewhere in the middle...

If you think I have a problem with you or your organization, you are wrong.

If you think you are an outcast of this forum, you are wrong.

If my comments did provoke you to state your side of the story, then that is great!


all I ask that this stay in a discussion forum with all members that were there, and NOT TURN INTO A FLAME WAR. If it does, then it will be locked and nothing will be learned.

[Viceroy Odantis]

my reply isn't directed at you exactly skor...i've heard various people calling me elitist again...it all started post-salous...so i just wanna get it all out there...but the fact remains that yes I feel like an enemy of swgtales...maybe that's in my head...but i don't think so...

i mean...i remmeber they had a meeting at one point to determine what to do about me knowing their teamspeak info...apparently afraid i would log on to teamspeak and harrass them or something.

[Skorixor]

i mean...i remmeber they had a meeting at one point to determine what to do about me knowing their teamspeak info...apparently afraid i would log on to teamspeak and harrass them or something.

lol, we haven't used a TS server in about a year

if you were an outcast, you would have been banned long ago

[Dwilah]

I would like to remind the forum-using public that personal attacks are against the rules in this forum. While explanations for the sake of clarity are usually a good idea, I think this particular topic is pretty hot and the people involved are all still upset about the happenings. I'd like to encourage the people involved to settle their differences peacefully and privately, perhaps after taking a little time to think about it and process everything.

We all get angry and we all take great pride in the individual communities that make up the larger RP and gaming whole on Gorath. What's important to remember is that in the long run, we are all part of that whole and we're a stronger community if we can remember that today's upsets fade in time and people can remain friends, or at least game and RP together.

Again, I'd remind everyone of the rules of this forum and encourage them to settle their differences privately. Everyone is very welcome on these boards, we just ask that you respect one another.

[Jabe Adaks]

It amazes me that we start seeing a lot of TTF members post here publicly and its only to clarify who wronged who in an OOC argument.

The first time I met Alonzo in game it was to witness a 20 minute OOC ass-reaming and him kicking out two guild members on the spot. Strangely enough, I personally found Alonzo's handling of the situation to be rather funny. The problem is, this kind of situation appears to becoming more and more the rule and less and less the exception.

So I am sorry that I have little appreciation for this thread or any others regarding TTF, MCI or Roba night. I have had the same experiences with all three. I am not saying I like or dislike anyone involved, but these rants and explanations could go on forever without any real progress being made.

No roleplayer will ever be an "enemy" of swgtales. We have no alliance to a particular group, guild or faction. We're not out to get Alonzo or anyone else. I think most of us have just accepted that Alonzo enjoys feeling hated, so most of us pass up any opportunity to show some kudos.

All we want is to see quality roleplay going on, rp that is unimpeded by OOC arguments.

If you guys really want to get good rp going and get this situation cleaned up, then spend more time posting about your event(s) and other situations when there aren't problems. Ask people what might make Roba night better. In other words, start some long threads about something productive. At that point more people will start taking everything else you bring here more seriously.

Peace out.

Jabe