Villains

[Dwilah]

I would like to brainstorm a little as a community and discuss villains. What makes a good villain? Why do we like our favorite bad guys? What's cliche...what's not cliche...and what's a cliche that's okay to run into in a villain as long as s/he meets other requirements? What's cliche but a necessary cliche? I'll start...feel free to add. If anyone knows stuff about criminal...theory or whatever that'd be neat too.

Often seen....
Disfigured
Wants power in wealth
Feakishly mutated into something really strong/evil
Starts off as a not-evil, weak person
Intelligent, super intelligent

Things I like in a villain...
Gray area ("There is still good in him.")
Likeable villains. They're funny or clever (kinda would fall into gray area)
An emotional weakness/softspot
Creepy, makes you uncomfortable
Inner villainy

[Jabe Adaks]

A good villain messes with people's emotions. They find a persons weak spot and exploit it, so really a villain cutomizes what he does dpending on who his victim is.

Jabe

[Kahuaria]

I think a good villian is one who is insane, especially since people would never think themselves to be crazy, to an insane person his/her logic makes perfect sence and everyone else is wrong. But then I like irony, give me a bad guy who thinks he's saving the world by killing innocent people and i'm good.

I don't like self realization before death tho. "oh i see that i was wrong now..." *falls over dead* nahh let him go down with a fight pride intact.

[Seret Sajet]

A good villian for me falls into one of two categories.

Utterly Insane - Kahuaria's description is perfect so no need to expand.

Self-righteous - A villian who may not be insane but it completely driven by one goal or purpose and nothing will stand in the way of getting to that goal. Other people do not matter, other opinions do not matter, nothing but their own ideal matters. This type of villian would kill thousands just to get to one person. They would condemn anyone even associated with someone who opposes their goal. This is the type of villian that almost everyone fears.

[Kyanus]

One of the best villians I've ever come across was in a fantasy-based PBeM from high school. The villian was a paladin--a Lawful Good holier-than-thou typical paladin. He ruled over his country with an iron fist through his religious doctrine, but he thought he was doing everything for the better good. He helped the poor and did generally nice things, but his religious tendencies branched into harming heretics and other non-believers.

Made for an interesting storyline because no one wanted to believe he was capable of the injustices (religious and social) he committed, and no one wanted to depose him because of the good he did.

[Zannon]

The type of villain I like is the kind that makes you think about yourself and your own emotions/feelings. Someone who is capable of doing horrid things, but when you think about them and their motivations, you realized that you yourself could easily become the same villain. I guess I'm a Nietzsche fan...I like to look at my villains and see a little of myself in them...it makes them much scarier.

A fantastic example of this type of villain would be Kevin Spacy in Seven.

[Ekade]

A villain needs to be entertaining.

Huh?

Yeah.

A villain creates more "fun" and more RP than any other character. Good reacts. Evil drives the story. Conflict fuels RP.

A villain needs to think of themselves as a storyteller. They are the ultimate in-game GM.

In addition, the villain needs to be flawed. The perfect villain is no fun.


What is most important, is that the villain needs to sell it. They need to get buy-in from all the RP'ers playing in their story. A villain that is ignored does not work. A villain also needs support. They need minions to do their bidding. The role of minion is fun if the villain is sufficiently entertaining.

Jabe hit the nail right on the head.. the villain is the master manipulator. A villain will find their enemies weakness and exploit it.

A villain is someone with a goal. Someone who is extremely motivated and ambitious. Someone who is wholly convinced that the end justifies the means. A villain is willing to take calcualted risks. A villain has a superiority complex.


............

I played a villain in Jabe's Replicant War. It was a blast. I did a lot of those things mentioned above. The manipulation was the most fun and generated some very interesting dialog, both with "victims" and fellow bad-guys. I had some great IC conversations with Kirt, Jabe, Isleh, and Weyune on the subject of "power" and controlling people.

I did drop the ball once... I had ordered the capture of Batak and Rebecca.. but was never able to find the time to properly torture them for nosing around in my affairs.

I would have liked to have seen more "buy-in" and participation in the day-to-day RP that was going on during that story.. but I have come to realize that people, myself included, pick and choose what they will involve themselves in. It's impossible to get EVERYONE to participate.

[Krusshyk]

I never was a fan of the "insane criminal" mastermind. To me, it's just a tired cliche'. A far more interesting villian would be the one who ISN'T crazy...the one who is totally in control of his faculties, yet STILL does some messed up shit. That's the guy you should be scared of. Not the whack job psychopath. Everybody knows the whacko is going to do something evil...but you pick a seemingly normal guy (or gal) and make them do something twisted...that would be a good villian. Charming and sadistic...but not overtly "crazy".

I think sociopaths make really scary villians. They are typically of higher than average intelligence, manipulative, indifferent to the rules of society or any morality, protracted histories of torture or violence towards living things, yet on the surface they can appear to be totally "normal".

[Kahuaria]

Hah you just discribed my favorite serial killer, Jeffory Dahumer, sociopath extrodinar. I can agree with you on that one, the hannibles of the world make things intresting, but it also fits in with my irony love, normal guy less than normal ..... erm ..... hobbies.
(But with Dahumer he was a little crazy too, he thought his only crime was picking victoms that were too young.)

[Illbleed]

Hah you just discribed my favorite serial killer, Jeffory Dahumer, sociopath extrodinar. I can agree with you on that one, the hannibles of the world make things intresting, but it also fits in with my irony love, normal guy less than normal ..... erm ..... hobbies.
(But with Dahumer he was a little crazy too, he thought his only crime was picking victoms that were too young.)

Um, I don't think that's appropriate for the board. Especially calling him your "favorite". That's just sick, man.

I think what Dwi was looking for was looking for was higher level ideas, not real world examples.

[Zannon]

Hah you just discribed my favorite serial killer, Jeffory Dahumer, sociopath extrodinar. I can agree with you on that one, the hannibles of the world make things intresting, but it also fits in with my irony love, normal guy less than normal ..... erm ..... hobbies.
(But with Dahumer he was a little crazy too, he thought his only crime was picking victoms that were too young.)

Um, I don't think that's appropriate for the board. Especially calling him your "favorite". That's just sick, man.

I don't think she meant favorite as in,"I'm gonna start a fan club and create a shrine in my basement", but more of a favorite as in, "I find his motives and thoght processes interesting." sort of way...or at least I hope so.

[Va'len Grey]

On of my favorite villians is Magneto, especially the one portrayed in the last two movies.

He knows the good guys, he was friends with them, and in a way still is. But their ideals are so vastly different, yet so very close at the same time, it drives him to do things to achieve those goals (slaughtering all the humans on earth using his own former friend for instance)

Minipulation of the heroes is the best of the best traits a villian can have. Knowing that if the need arises they can even side with him against a greater evil.. and then you can exploit them further, things like that.

[Dwilah]

I'm talking in general...we think of movies and books a lot when we think of villains, but those are often exagerrated. I am interested in more realistic villains and what motivates them, as uncomfortable as it can be to think about.

[Isleh]

Hah you just discribed my favorite serial killer, Jeffory Dahumer, sociopath extrodinar. I can agree with you on that one, the hannibles of the world make things intresting, but it also fits in with my irony love, normal guy less than normal ..... erm ..... hobbies.
(But with Dahumer he was a little crazy too, he thought his only crime was picking victoms that were too young.)

Um, I don't think that's appropriate for the board. Especially calling him your "favorite". That's just sick, man.

I don't think she meant favorite as in,"I'm gonna start a fan club and create a shrine in my basement", but more of a favorite as in, "I find his motives and thoght processes interesting." sort of way...or at least I hope so.

If I remember correctly, the book "The Silence of the Lambs" bad-guys were a mixture of real criminals

I kinda think it may be more of like someone in the FBI Behavioral Science Section kind of interest for Kahuaria.

[warsloth]

So what you are saying is that Whar needs to slide a little more... Im all over it. If you are willing to watch as he spirals into the heart of darkness, He will become a great Hero-Villain. The mental issues are already in place, there is a motive, and room for him to push the envelope (watch it bend)