Post Combat Upgrade Discussion (split from Expansion Thread)

Sepiv wrote:I'll be darkly honest...I've been gone what is it, 6-7 months? Other than being curious about the new vehicles and creatures that appear, maybe also curious how the cybernetics work, I really feel that SOE has taken the wrong path with SWG and made it worse.

I hear there are something like 600 Jedi on Gorath alone, with another 100+ in the pipeline because of decisions made. The entire concept of a measured few jedi in the Empire is dead and gone. The world feels nothing like it's supposed to now. I can see ignoring a couple battling jedi as it was in Feb or playing it as the rarity it was. Now they are common. And they are designed to be completely superior to any other character.

SOE honestly must have changed designers and these new ones must think that everyone playing SWG doesn't care about world content -- they only want to become a jedi. Everyone just wants to become a jedi.

The new combat and stat reduction. I just can't say the change will grow on me. It's as if everyone just became less 3D. We are just HAM now.

I'm griping, sorry. I don't want to gripe. I just looked at things more last night and talked to friends who were on at the time. Nobody likes change. This just feels like poorly thought out change.

:x Ranting Jinx :x
You are not alone in feeling disenchanted. The CU hit many of us like a slap in the face and some have never recovered.

The CU basically widened the gap between full-combat templates and partial combat templates. In essence, it took any hopes of me having fun in PvP and PvE and and threw them out the window.

Jedi are even further seperated as the clear Alpha class, and now they are the ones getting the new content.

I am still trying to give the CU a chance.. the problem is that there are few scalable challenges. Something is either too easy, or too hard. I have yet to find a combat experience where my decisions really had a significant impact on the battle. Just being along for the ride does not cut it for me. I am still looking for me first "great PvE fight" post-CU.
Ekade
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I split this from the other thread because we were going off on a new tangent.

Personally, I have a good old time in PVE since the CU, and with only partial combat templates. I have an alt that is CL66 that does fine, but he can't solo higher level content, so he needs back up in the form of a tank or a medic all the time. This was probably their intent with the CU to encourage grouping.

If you want to have a good PVE experience after the CU where you feel like you really are doing something and being part of a team, group with folks around your level and not a bunch of level 80's and then go to Kashyyyk to do quests or try the Geo cave with a mixed group of level 80s and lower. Shoot me a /tell if I'm on (I think you have all my alt's names) and I'll take you to some of the more fun PVE spots I've discovered after the CU with my CL66 guy.
Zannon
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Honestly, I think if SWG came out today the way it is now, people would love it.

The problem is that people liked their experience in galaxies more in another stage of its evolution than they do now. And since they were exposed to another SWG that they liked better, they miss it.

Change is hard, some of the old-schoolers have adapted, some just want their old game back. It's human nature.

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ekade: I've asked you so many times to come to my pvp classes or pvp with us...you keep saying there's no place for mixed temps and that's not true...

Now surely you don't think a TKA dancer should be as good in combat as a TKA/fencer? so no, that's not happening, but you can still help out.


Smugglers? awesome as hybrids
Docs/Cm? Same

TKA isn't teh best hybrid but you can still have fun and contribute. Come to the avatar platform with us once, or as zannon said geo caves...

I think the CU deserves a better chance that what it appears you've given it hun
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I love the game's combat and PvE still, even as an everlasting not-80. I still feel useful in combat and because I know how to use a few specials well and what they do exactly, I feel like I do make a difference in group hunts.

When you're in a random grind hunt, no... Those hunts you're with strangers and people are only interested in damage and XP. When you're with people you know though, it's much better. You get to know people's tendencies and you know what people are capable of.

For example, last night myself, Nutrinous, and Jabe were hunting gurks. We got aggroed by a kimogila hatchling and we took it down by ourselves without being all level 80s buffed and spiced to the hilt and armored because we all knew our good specials and how to move around each other, and we worked well together as a team knowing each other's abilities to bring down the baby beastie. And then we hooted and painted ourselves with mud and roasted its carcass in celebration.
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It should be noted that I am level 66 and am having just as much fun as when I was 80. Sometimes I forget I am at level 66, Dwilah's post above reminded me.

To be honest, I am having mroe fun at a lower level because there are more challenges in random spawns and its actually meaningful to walk the surface of a planet without missions on my datapad.

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Jabe Adaks wrote:To be honest, I am having mroe fun at a lower level because there are more challenges in random spawns and its actually meaningful to walk the surface of a planet without missions on my datapad.
EXACTLY...I can't visit places like Yavin and Endor (some of my favorite planets) by myself because I'm too low level. For me, it adds a lot of immersion that I have to get help or run like hell.
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Im one of the "old school" who's finally starting to enjoy the CU a bit more. What did it for me was a few positive experiences in group combat with peopl I knew and had fun with, to get me interested at ALL in what my character could do instead of focus on my thoughts on what I miss. I still today prefer pre-cu combat and I would wet myself if I ever got my beloved Teras Kasi / Dancer back. I kicked so much ass with her, just like Ekade kicked serious ass with her Fencer :D
Anyhoo, took me awhile to forget, forgive and move on. The forced grouping for XP parties has done some good things for the general community feel of the server I find. I'm enjoying going to Blizzard Dunes now and then, catch a random XP party and just hunt. Explore my characters combat abilities, improve my own responses to situations, going down, going down! Aura up, Heal, Synth steak and lemme tank that mofo! hehe anyway, adapting is hard, we've heard it said before as for usefulness. Believe me, any group member is NEEDED.
We're moving towards a design and a style of play I know from Lineage2 and its easy for me adapt in combat. What we got rid of was the "I win" button. My TKM or Ekades Fencer, buffed and packed with foods could KILL ALL MOBS in the entire game solo save a few. (NS Elders > TKM fyi :razz: ). Yeah I had fun solo'ing enraged rancor lairs for $$ and timing how many seconds I could whipe out the lair in, on top of 20 spawns and didnt take me many minuttes. There was no danger anywhere in the game because my character, even unbuffed could kick the crap out of any mob anywhere. TODAY, oh boy I've taken a lot of deaths that were painful to my pride hehee from random spawns I've run into. Anyone still feeling misplaced in SWG should group with us or your friends and take the time to LEARN your class. I quickly discovered that TKM being a tank class was not my idea of fun so if I hadn't continued along the path of jedi I'd have chosen a different melee profession, probably gone back to Pike. Ekade as example again, if Fencer no longer suits your playstyle its not impossible for you to change class without too much hassle *winks* knowing you pretty well, I'm guessing you would prefer a pure damage dealing class because like me, you love kicking ass! So find your new style Sister! You have a whole family and a community here to draw experience from if you dont want to do it the slow way, all by yourself.

Jedi being Alpha's is bullshit, no offense and content is NOT only being made for the majority who prefer jedi. Jedi have classes, just like normal Elite professions have Riflemen, Pistoleers and Carbineers who can take Medic or other professions into the template. We have healers, buffers, DDs and tanks. What we see is the usual slow development time for ANY content and it takes months and months for them to fix issues. All is the same as usual ;)
Saying that the jedi get all the attention isn't fair IMHO without wanting to open that can of worms again.

Being a Dancer and a Fencer will make you exactly as special and useful as before, I promise :D
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I am very glad you guys are having fun in the Post-CU combat system.

I've tried, and will continue to try to find my first fun post-CU combat experience. It just has not happened yet.

My perception is that the game does not give you a lot of reason to PvE once your template is done. I don't need XP, I don't really need money, I have no interest in farming for rare drops.. So, I would be fighting for the fun of fighting.

I dunno.. does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can find a fun place to hunt.. where a CL56 Swordsman/Brawler could feel challenged, and feel like they are making a contribution to the group?

I really like the instance dungeons in WoW in that they have a beginning and an end.. and you feel like you accomplish something when you complete it. Killing lairs does not leave me with the same sense of satisfaction.

I'll be honest.. SWG has to compete with WoW for my attention. In WoW, my importance to the group is HUGE. I have to be on the ball the whole time and make the right decisions at the right times. It is challenging, but that is what I enjoy. I can have that feeling no matter what my level is in WoW.
Last edited by Ekade on Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ekade
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Try just a little bit of CM, Ekade. (I only have 4000.) You will be wanted and needed and you WILL have to pay attention. You will get aggroed and you will have to defend yourself as well as keep others alive.
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I think your biggest issue in differentiating the two games is that you play a class in WoW that is rare. You are a priest. They are the most sought after class in the game for any group because of their healing abilities. So you are always wanted by any party. As a Shaman I rarely get invites just because no one thinks Shaman's are setup to heal. I set my template up to work with groups, not be a solo combatant. Many are surprised when they group with me at how effective a healer I actually am.

Now, in SWG you play a warrior type class. Pretty much the same as anyone else so you don't have the unique role that makes you the center of attention in a group. I am not saying that as a negative thing towards you but I do feel it directly affects your desire to play. If you enjoy healing so much in WoW perhaps you should give it a go in SWG. I played a doctor/CM on an alt for over a year and I enjoyed it greatly. The downside is the crafting involved or if you don't want to craft searching out vendors for supplies.

I have considered going back to this just because of the lag involved with the game right now. But that will be remedied soon and I will decide when I get back what I want my role to be.
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E-bo Obi
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PSSST....there is no crafting in CM/doc anymore, nor do you have to buy supplies to heal unless you want enhancers (I don't).
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E-bo and Dwilah have a good point, plus with the CU, you don't have to make meds anymore as a healer, that's handled by a BE if I'm not mistaken.
Zannon
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Dwilah wrote:PSSST....there is no crafting in CM/doc anymore, nor do you have to buy supplies to heal unless you want enhancers (I don't).
YOU FLAMER!!!!11111!!! =P

Anyway. I don't know. Haven't played a doc in a while. I guess they did make it just another WoW class.
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Yes, I have to agree with what a lot of people have said here. Yala, Jabe, Dwilah, Alonzo. You guys are realling hitting the nail on the head. Frankly Jedi are not much of an alpha class. Look at Alonzo he can take out some of the best if not the best Jedi on the server. But he's not a Jedi. So it's all in what your desire to do is.

Now as 'Zo said, no it's not right that a TKM/Dancer should be able to take out a BH/Carbineer or something like that. But that doesn't mean you're not important in PvP or PvE. I'm a CL 68 right now and as Jabe said it's some of the most fun I've ever had.

The thing is putting yourself in a situation you'll have fun in. Saf and I hit the Ryatt trail the other night and it was a blast. She's a CL 70 and my puny CL 68 self went down to level 4 RP'ing as we went and it was great. Heck we about got ourselves killed but it's the most fun I have had in a long time. I don't miss the days of soloing rancor's and quenkers myself.

As an MMORPG this game is not about what any one person can do, it's about what you as a group can do. And it's more fun when you just let that be. Heck before the CU all anyone did was complain about solo'ing and no interaction, now you have it and don't want it. I just don't understand.
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