Observation and semi rant

[Yala]

I'm flabbergasted, shocked and completely and utterly surprised and enraged at the same time.

I reactivated my old buffer/doctor alt and respected her for some normal combat other useful things I may need because I know very little about the CU combat from a non jedi perseptive. I went to Dantooine MOP and started a group, got 5-6 ranged and a single new jedi, off we went.


/rant on

Now the shocking part. After roughly an hour of hunting Bols I have already learned Pistol grips 1 to 3 in Pistoleer. I cannot believe how easy this is to skill. Healing XP capped after 2 lairs, where I didnt even try to function as a healer. I could Master Pistoleer easily in a days work. Next profession tomorrow if I have the time. Thats silly really. Where is the feeling of accomplishment? Well, anyway Im pleased I can get that done fast and try out various things.

What now enrages me is the good anti jedi thing half the server have going. Without intending to start that debate here and now, I'd like to make one comment. People who think Jedi are too powerful or dont deserve to be made stronger than a regular profession, need to get shot first thing come dawn

Im thinking about all the hours I have put into just completing one skillbox in jedi, XP which I may loose at any time to a mbh/mcm doing a drive-by on me... and then compare to the normal Elite profession. I'm just SHOCKED!

Now its fine to me Elites are easy, its fine the jedi skilling is hard and long winded to the point of having nightmares about Pikets BUT either they need to level the XP gain on par with normal Elite professions or they have to re-enable some of the strength in that jedi. I just feel like an idiot now

I know, I know. Suck it up or leave the jedi alone or the game

/rant off

*returns to her post 30 min later*

The roleplay and friendships really keeps us here hmm?
Thank the Maker for swgtales!

[toront]

I'm flabbergasted, shocked and completely and utterly surprised and enraged at the same time.

I reactivated my old buffer/doctor alt and respected her for some normal combat other useful things I may need because I know very little about the CU combat from a non jedi perseptive. I went to Dantooine MOP and started a group, got 5-6 ranged and a single new jedi, off we went.


/rant on

Now the shocking part. After roughly an hour of hunting Bols I have already learned Pistol grips 1 to 3 in Pistoleer. I cannot believe how easy this is to skill. Healing XP capped after 2 lairs, where I didnt even try to function as a healer. I could Master Pistoleer easily in a days work. Next profession tomorrow if I have the time. Thats silly really. Where is the feeling of accomplishment? Well, anyway Im pleased I can get that done fast and try out various things.

What now enrages me is the good anti jedi thing half the server have going. Without intending to start that debate here and now, I'd like to make one comment. People who think Jedi are too powerful or dont deserve to be made stronger than a regular profession, need to get shot first thing come dawn

Im thinking about all the hours I have put into just completing one skillbox in jedi, XP which I may loose at any time to a mbh/mcm doing a drive-by on me... and then compare to the normal Elite profession. I'm just SHOCKED!

Now its fine to me Elites are easy, its fine the jedi skilling is hard and long winded to the point of having nightmares about Pikets BUT either they need to level the XP gain on par with normal Elite professions or they have to re-enable some of the strength in that jedi. I just feel like an idiot now

I know, I know. Suck it up or leave the jedi alone or the game

/rant off

*returns to her post 30 min later*

The roleplay and friendships really keeps us here hmm?
Thank the Maker for swgtales!

Just a quick question, what level did your alt end up being when you reactivated? The higher your level, the faster xp goes. If you try to reskill or grind FS xp at level 80, it flies.

As for Jedi xp, it's better now than it ever was. The solo grind was so much slower than it is now. Solo I managed to keep off the terminals. Now, I don't know if I could manage such a feat doing the grind in groups, but the xp gain is tremendously better (not to mention it's less lonely). Sure, we get less xp and our skill boxes are bigger to fill, but people still manage to do the whole grind in 2-3 weeks, so I think it's not too bad the way it is.

[Skorixor]

like toront said said, anyone can max out jedi still rather fast and easy, and with that it puts you so far above any lvl 80 character, that it's ridiculous, and you then get access to all the high level danger content, while the rest of us sit back and watch...

you get all the content while the rest of us are restricted

so while you think us anti-jedi people should be shot at dawn, we still think all you jedi should take off your kneepads, stop getting catered to by the devs, and stop ruining the game for the rest of us

[Hashum]

Jedi aren't any better at high end content then the rest of you. We still take high dmg from high CL MOB's in those dungeon's just like you do. Believe me SOE does not cater to the Jedi.

Sure it may seem that way to all of you because all you see is some fix published for Jedi every patch. But I think you forget there are 5 Jedi professions. And with every patch you fail to notice all the fixes to Chef, or Armorsmith that come out because those don't effect you.

Believe me half of the Jedi Professions (Healer, Powers, and some of Enhancer) are completely borked. Their about as bad as Commando or Squad Leader. Just plain useless, or while they may work the skills do so little and cost so does little good.

I know TKM's can go solo krayt's themselves or solo the vette and that's about the most that a Jedi could do. The only thing that might allow a Jedi a slight edge would be AI, but even then when using it you get snared and it only keeps you alive for 30 seconds.

If we were so much better we wouldn't get owned by MBH/MCM so easily. I can tell you for sure that we're not 1.5x stronger then a MBH/MCM and several other templates out there. So your argument about the content being all for Jedi is just wrong.

[Skorixor]

Jedi aren't any better at high end content then the rest of you. We still take high dmg from high CL MOB's in those dungeon's just like you do. Believe me SOE does not cater to the Jedi.

LOL, good one hash...I'm laughing even though it's hurting my sore throat...

good stuff

[Yala]

She had a whooping combat level of 51 and received around 6-8k xp per Bol the group downed and we downed them quickly one by one. Without knowing much of ranged combat now I simply assigned 1 person to function as tank and the rest to target him for assist. I think it was nearly as fast as spinning.

I agree with you that jedi XP has become easier with the right groups, an Mdef or similar to tank and a group of jedi to spin, heal and assist. The good groups are hard to find however and only become more rare as time pass however the sheer amount of work you need to put into it, along with the occasional XP losses is totally not comparable to a normal Elite who upon completion after a few days have a strength relative to most jedi. 2-3 weeks btw. is for Insomniacs on speed
I have pulled many 8 hour days dedicated to completing my template and I'm far from done. I know I changed mine but the current template I have used more than 3 weeks on already and I play a great deal. I also think its fine it takes a lot longer, my point is that I find it unfair we're constantly flamed and nerfed, we WORKED for this, allow us some reward and stop complaining about our powers. It is NOT all that amusing to play a jedi anymore. Example, instead of fixing my lightsaber speed to work as INTENDED they give a nerf on my costs and timer for healing. The priorities on bugs is all screwed up. This not a whine as such, its more to point out the imbalance in work vs reward between the Elite and the Jedi. The Bounty Hunters are becoming the pampered and spoiled profession that Jedi used to be. Soon they get to hunt Smugglers too. You get the best loot and a kickbutt combat profession. Good for you. Time in the dev workshop would be better spent on fixing bugs, fixing "intended" content and making other professions fun and useful.

Another symptom caused by this is that most jedi have similar templates with one purpose, pvp. We see most are MLS, some Enhancer and very little healer in the mix. Very few are dedicated to Powers, Healing or Enhancer so little variation exists, just like the FOTM BHer is a sad development though now I'm derailing my own post

[toront]

like toront said said, anyone can max out jedi still rather fast and easy, and with that it puts you so far above any lvl 80 character, that it's ridiculous, and you then get access to all the high level danger content, while the rest of us sit back and watch...

you get all the content while the rest of us are restricted

so while you think us anti-jedi people should be shot at dawn, we still think all you jedi should take off your kneepads, stop getting catered to by the devs, and stop ruining the game for the rest of us

Be careful about twisting my words here Skor. I said the grind was easier now than it ever was. I did not say fast and easy. When I say 2-3 weeks, I mean a good 3hr+ grind session for every single day in a good flowing spin group. Under the same conditions, a level 1 could grind out to lvl 80 in 2 days.

As for your complaint about content centered around Jedi, I'm not sure I really get it. There is no content in this game that requires you to be Jedi. People fall on Jedi to be a crutch because they do make difficult content easier, thus assuming the only way to do it is with Jedi. Also, don't know if it was part of your thought here, but I'll just throw in that you can become force sensitive, do every quest in the village and still never have to become a Jedi.

In regards to the Devs comment, yes, for a good period of time the Jedi seemed to be the devs' baby. However, lately, I don't really know how true that is. Any patch notes in the last 3-4 publishes have been bug fixes (other professions have had bug fixes in the publishes too) or balancing (YAY cloak nerf!!!!! ). The focus has definately been on non-Jedi post CU: SL and Ranger revamps, BH mission overhaul, etc.

I have nothing wrong with anti-Jedi people, but I question some of the reasons for why you seem to be so. That said, they're your reasons and you can hate Jedi if you want.

[Yala]

you get all the content while the rest of us are restricted

Pray tell, what high end content do we get to enjoy that you "mortals" cannot?
I would love to know so I can go enjoy it because I haven't found any, so point me in the direction already

[Skorixor]

let's see, it's 3 jedi vs me in a thread, so I'm not going to continue...so much like the game, if there's 3 jedi grouped together, they can win against anything, where as a group of lvl 80's will not...

and in here it's just me, so you all win!

congrats!

[Yala]

Give me 1 tank, a DDer and a Healer and put them in a contest for a high end area versus 3 Jedi. Now we asume these players know their professions and classes well, have high end armor and weapons. Not a respec BHer or a 4 days grind to lvl 80 player. I can tell you why the 3 Jedi appear to be superior and why they are not at all.

Elite Melee tanks with the right template are perfectly able to match a Jedi tank. An Elite DDer is perfectly capable of doing more dmg than the Jedi MLS. The two healers both perform their function adequately except the Elite can rez and provide useful buffs. A Jedi Healer can not.
The Elites can continue for hours on end if they are good, with little to no rest. The Jedi will have to rush, fight hard and fast, seemingly superior for once they are out of Force, they are in serious trouble.

I would love to test this out in game, let the facts speak for themselves

Now should it be the case that Jedi return to having an edge, why in the world not? There is so much more work required and anyone can do it. It is not a class or style reserved for the few.

[toront]

let's see, it's 3 jedi vs me in a thread, so I'm not going to continue...so much like the game, if there's 3 jedi grouped together, they can win against anything, where as a group of lvl 80's will not...

and in here it's just me, so you all win!

congrats!

Okay, that's fine. I'm not being unreasonable or bullying. I just wanted a couple reasonable questions answered, as in what content is restricted to Jedi?

As far as the DWB, TTF sans Toront (I was on my Doc/CM alt) made it a good deal of the way into it and our raid ended by the simple fact that the place doesn't allow raid groups, meaning we had to pass through a security door and the spawns twice. It was fine, until one person was dead when we used the security key, meaing they couldn't move into that next room once rezzed. This is the hardest dungeon in the game and we were doing pretty well with 12-14 people, all non-Jedi.

If you let me know what you mean by content, maybe I'd have a shot at conversing rather than taking shots in the dark.

[toront]

Give me 1 tank, a DDer and a Healer and put them in a contest for a high end area versus 3 Jedi. Now we asume these players know their professions and classes well, have high end armor and weapons. Not a respec BHer or a 4 days grind to lvl 80 player. I can tell you why the 3 Jedi appear to be superior and why they are not at all.

Elite Melee tanks with the right template are perfectly able to match a Jedi tank. An Elite DDer is perfectly capable of doing more dmg than the Jedi MLS. The two healers both perform their function adequately except the Elite can rez and provide useful buffs. A Jedi Healer can not.
The Elites can continue for hours on end if they are good, with little to no rest. The Jedi will have to rush, fight hard and fast, seemingly superior for once they are out of Force, they are in serious trouble.

I would love to test this out in game, let the facts speak for themselves

Yes, to be quite honest, the only advantage that Jedi have is longevity. They have many abilities that prolong their life where normal characters die. However, this longevity really only shows itself in PvP, with things like force run to get away or avoid incap to keep swinging. In PvE, Jedi are not at some unattainable pedastal. Routinely in PvE I have to tell one player to fire slower or use a different weapon because they outdamage me (just ask Kirt) otherwise they draw the aggro. Healers can heal for far more than my 1000 every 6s.

Pre-CU or even before Pub 19 Post-CU, Jedi were in a league of their own, I will admit that much. That being said, there has been a good deal done to bring Jedi down a few notches. Yes, we are more powerful than the average player but not unrealistically so. The gap between the two classes is not as wide as some think it is.

[Yala]

Yes, we are more powerful than the average player but not unrealistically so. The gap between the two classes is not as wide as some think it is.

I would even venture to disagree with that. I don't find we are superior at all. Of course we have different perspectives, yourself being more solo pvp oriented where I work with group skills in powers.

[toront]

Yes, we are more powerful than the average player but not unrealistically so. The gap between the two classes is not as wide as some think it is.

I would even venture to disagree with that. I don't find we are superior at all. Of course we have different perspectives, yourself being more solo pvp oriented where I work with group skills in powers.

Yeah, the gap varies according to template. I was judging by the most powerful solo template (MLS/MDef) since that's what I know best and is a good point to argue from when talking about power relationship between the two classes. Like Hashum said somewhere in here, there are 5 Jedi disciplines meaning that you can't just label ALL Jedi super powerful, a good deal of it depends on the Jedi's template.

[Novall]

let's see, it's 3 jedi vs me in a thread, so I'm not going to continue...so much like the game, if there's 3 jedi grouped together, they can win against anything, where as a group of lvl 80's will not...

and in here it's just me, so you all win!

congrats!

3 Jedi groupd in the DWB die just like the normal profs do. The only difference between a normal profession and a Jedi is the force bar.