"Victim of Red Dot Paranoia" and RP Guild Wars

[Isleh]

"Victim of Red Dot Paranoia" = "red dot paranoia" on someone else's part and the fact that you are OOC and minding you own business and just happen to *be* that red dot.

This has yet to happen ( that I know of ) yet I want to see what other's think and throw out solutions. It's not really a matter of just looking and seeing if the player is RPing. Sometimes we play NPCs. Sometimes we even play out "flashback" scenes.

What I suggest is a simple tell "GW IC?" that can be replied to with a quick "Y" or "N". A quick way of asking the question "Are you in character in the context of the current guild war?". A simple "OOC?" may lead to some confusion depending on that person's personal definition of "OOC". "GW IC?" leaves very little room for mistakes unless the player does not understand the question and that is another unrelated problem.

This can be done in such a way that you don't have to announce that you will be attacking in the next 30 seconds using a third party. For instance, the Roba has a guard at it's door. If that player sees a red dot coming to the door (or members with specific guild tags), they can simply send a tell "GW IC?" and record the answer. Anyone can then make an OOC inquiry with the goor guard without giving away anything.

[Jabe Adaks]

I thought the point of the guild war was to do away with the /duel and be able to fight at the drop of a hat. Yet, still have an IC reason to do so. Obviously if you argue with someone and they pull out a gun, then you would fight.

Jabe

[Nyvveck]

Exactly. I don't think you would need a system like this, because someone attacks you in the guildwar, they obviously have an IC reason for doing so (if they don't, they are in violation of the rules). When I'm not being "in character", I simply ignore the red dots (after I make sure they are MERCS or Templ).

The whole point of it is to keep people from talking like they could kill a roomful of people, but not accepting duels. Personally, I'd like to see all the big RP guilds war eachother, at least before any big event.

[Sai'nu]

While I do admire Isleh's attempt to speak out; I guess I need to step in and point out I think 'I'm' the one she's trying to speak for. I do have a problem with forcing a mechanic of gameplay on someone that does not desire to be a part of it. The argument I'm having with my guild right now is that I'm doing the following:

Problem Identification => Determine Feasibility

And not:

Problem Identification => Testing Problem Solutions => Determine Feasibility

with this current system of Guild Warring.

I was first somewhat shocked that we were being voulanteered to participate in a system before our guild could even 'vote' on it.

Thankfully, we did have a vote and the participants that wanted it are trying out the trial and those of us that did not want anything to do with a forced PvP mechanic (myself), were given enough warning to remove ourselves from the guild for the weekend.

Red Dot Paranoia? Well, for me the problem with this system boils down to I am 'not' in character 24/7 and sometimes 'do' AoEs in places where I 'do' run into Mercs and TTF members. Being that person that can 'start' something without meaning to is something I do 'not' like doing. Thus far I have been participating in the /duel system very fairly I think.

In this case it feels more that a PvPer mechanic is being forced on a non-PvPer player; where my guild is concerned. I'm still debating my problems with it where it should be debated at.

As for all the posts here... I can't really say anything but your 'all' right in a way. It is my feeling that 'both' mechanics present certain problems though. PvP should be by choice: at the same time, in RP, I 'do' think someone should back up what they say in words with action.

However, it is also my understanding that we have a mix of players here. Pure RPers, RPvPers, and, let's face it, we do essentially have some PvPers. So, my argument is circling around being a Non-PvPer forced into a PvPer mechanic with my guild.

/shrug

Am I wrong for my views? I think I have some valid points only as I can see them.

I still support the rest of the community being able to participate in this if it enhances your gameplay. For someone like myself... it can be a turn off instead of a turn on.

[KirtViza]

I understand what your saying Batak,dont get me wrong but Like what happened at the roba. Sorain was dueling somone RP wise i believe and I got hit by a nade, I looked at how much Dmg i took and took it as getting hit by dirt since I took Very low amount. But honestly we are all mature and adult enough to know that if you hit me with a flamer on accident I wont freak out and go "WTFPWN /DB FTW".

[toront]

I understand what your saying Batak,dont get me wrong but Like what happened at the roba. Sorain was dueling somone RP wise i believe and I got hit by a nade, I looked at how much Dmg i took and took it as getting hit by dirt since I took Very low amount. But honestly we are all mature and adult enough to know that if you hit me with a flamer on accident I wont freak out and go "WTFPWN /DB FTW".

Yeah, if we aren't going nuts at the fact that you are red and attackable already, odds are we won't flip out at the first AoE

[Jabe Adaks]

Yeah, if we aren't going nuts at the fact that you are red and attackable already, odds are we won't flip out at the first AoE

I would be inclined to doing the IC equivalent of "moving out of the way." If I am still getting attacked when I made enough effort to leave the AoE, then I'll accept my fate and engage.

Jabe

[Dwilah]

I don't think anyone is going to force RP PVP on you any more than anyone's going to force RP on you. It's just rude and stupid to do so and the people involved in this wouldn't do that.

Unless you are involved in a storyline that would call for it, or somebody is deciding to start a storyline that involves a random act of violence to see the consequences tumble down.

I would take that as a great opportunity to RP with new people and a new storyline, but you know...not for everyone.

If nothing else just when the hits start coming, if you're not IC just throw someone a tell and say hey, not IC right now...please don't. I don't think they're going to keep at it.

[Isleh]

I understand what your saying Batak,dont get me wrong but Like what happened at the roba. Sorain was dueling somone RP wise i believe and I got hit by a nade, I looked at how much Dmg i took and took it as getting hit by dirt since I took Very low amount. But honestly we are all mature and adult enough to know that if you hit me with a flamer on accident I wont freak out and go "WTFPWN /DB FTW".

From what I experienced at the Roba and last night. This is far better than the duel system. As Mercs moved in on the chase, I didn't have to worry about having to type out /duel.

The capture system of grouping works great.

I can see red dot paranoia being a problem though on ocassion. For instance, me being chased by 3 Mercs last night. No one can tell me that someone OOC is not going to walk up to someone not knowing that they are in the middle of a situation very much like I was in and not risk being get fired on. It will happen. In fact, I thought it did happen as other Mercs joined the hunt and I saw a red dot shoot toward me. I targeted them and shot first.

With the /duel system their intention is clear but it is very cumbersome. The previous time I RPed being a mark was with the /duel system and it is a Pain in the Ass to put yourself on autorun, try to /target the players chasing you and /duel them, and fire with each time you secessfully get a /duel off you have another player opening fire on you.

Forget spontaneity with the /duel system. In the current hunt, if a Mercs player wants to jump in, to be fair, we have to stop all combat, get them dueled up, have them move back out of range and then start back up again. During that time, stats are wearing off, food is timing out, players are regenerating mind action and health.

Weighing in the pros and cons or the duel system to the guild war system, it comes down to:

cumbersome vs. streamlined
Intentions clearly stated with the '/duel' command vs. Intentions can be unclear at times due to the fact that the guild war is a persistent IC condition while players move IC and OOC freely.

When you relize that the '/duel' command is just another method of communicating intentions, then all this community has to do is establish some clear guidelines do to the same with the guild war system and this becomes a non-issue.


Some of the other things, like bystanders getting injured when someone throws a grenade into a crowded room? Could you really blame the crowd *at all* for pulling their blasters and collectivelly dropping that person like a stone when they pull another grenade?

"I felt a great disturbance in the force" collapses into a chair "As if a million voices cried out and said "Oh F! He's got another one!"".

[Isleh]

When you relize that the '/duel' command is just another method of communicating intentions, then all this community has to do is establish some clear guidelines do to the same with the guild war system and this becomes a non-issue.

This can be done in such a way that spontaneity can be mantained. e.g. broadcast that you are ooc by throwing up the AFK tag. Better yet, throw up a profession title OOC and take it down IC.

Obviously, if someone is in a spin group, you can safely assume that they are OOC.

[KirtViza]

When you relize that the '/duel' command is just another method of communicating intentions, then all this community has to do is establish some clear guidelines do to the same with the guild war system and this becomes a non-issue.

This can be done in such a way that spontaneity can be mantained. e.g. broadcast that you are ooc by throwing up the AFK tag. Better yet, throw up a profession title OOC and take it down IC.

Obviously, if someone is in a spin group, you can safely assume that they are OOC.

I tend to only Go IC by first contact the person..or with you isleh I knew you were IC cause we were at S&V, but usually I tend to somehow get it out of you first befor doing anything.

[E-bo Obi]

The thing that is 'really' 'freaking' 'annoying' 'to' 'me' is the 'extreme' 'overuse' of ' symbols in the 'recent' posts in reference to this system.

[warsloth]

thats a temporary thing E-bo, people arent actually posting symbols.

[Hashum]

I have to say I wish I could have participated in this, and would love to in the future. I would love for this to be permenant.

In Isleh's example of shooting an inocent red dot to me that sounds great. (I'm sure it wasn't to the person getting shot). But that's immersion right there. Someone running from their attackers in a panic they see someone else coming and just think they're defending themselves. That just sounds great to me.

And as everyone pointed out you're not being forced to do anything, just to live as though you really would. So if you do use AoE's just be a bit more mindful as you really would have had to be in a Star Wars Universe. You're not being Forced into or to do anything you don't want to do. You're actions will force or create the situation so as long as you do what you should do then you shouldn't have a problem.

And like Toront and Kirt both said most of us are adult enough to make rational decisions on such mistakes. So unless you're spamming AoE's like you're robbing the place you probably don't have anything to really worry about.

I look forward to following this and hope I can be a part of it in the future. I think this will vastly improve the feel of some events such as S&V night, and the thought of the possibilities there are very exciting.

[toront]

Last night in Bestine, Adunaphel fell victim to bystander damage. I was overt by the recruiter with a group, and several overt rebels came charging at us right at the mouth of the starport. Well the rebels seemed to stay in a tightnit pck, so I popped a Corellian Ale and went to town with dervish and spin attack.

Poor Aduna, simply trying to find something on the bazaar, little did he know what would befall him. As I saw the incap system messages begin to roll in from the rebels, I caught "You have incapacitated Adunaphel"



I sent him a tell after. He didn't die, got his butt outta there right after he got up, and didn't take it personally.