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Addressing Dwilah's questions

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 8:38 pm
by Isleh
Since the other thread was locked and since I would like to continue to address Dwilah's questions.

Dwilah wrote:--How can we make the RP guidelines the community as a whole approved more visible within the community?

--Would it help to have the Guidelines stickied at the top of every forum for easy access and reminders?

--How should the community actively use the Guidelines to promote positive and good RP, without scaring off new and future members?
As Ekade stated, people are interested in new posts only. The best way, I think, is to refer to them often in the current active threads. Don't just quote, provide the link as well. Make access as easy as possible.
Dwilah wrote:--How can the community actively use the Guidelines in the same way, only to deal with violators of the Guidelines that act on impulse already within the community...without flaming and attacking?
From some of the Materials I have here at work. Here are some of the exercises to handle confrontational and evasive situations. They are designed help a person stay focused on the task regardless of the noise ( see #4 below under "Elements in Communication" ).
Instigation Deflection-

Sit across from your partner at a distance of 18-48 inches. In this exercise, you will sit and listen to your partner attempt to harm you emotionally with his words. He has two minutes to go on a verbal rampage against you. He can say anything he wants, using any tone of voice he wants. His objective is to get you to argue or disagree with him. You successfully accomplish this exercise if you remain silent during the entire two minute time period and maintain eye or face contact without looking away. If you laugh or talk, you must start over.


Answer my question-

Sit between 18 and 48 inches across from your partner. Ask them a specific question.

"Do dogs meow?"

You are going to say, "thank you," when your partner answers you with "no." However the partner can choose not to respond, change the subject or ask you the question back instead of answering your question with a no. Your partner may do this four times for each of these four questions. He must give you a straight "no" answer on or before the fifth time you ask, "do dogs meow."

You succeed if you only say, "Do dogs meow?" after each non-responsive answer and when you say "thank you" to the correct answer to the question.

The other three questions are these:

"Are mailmen all women?"
"Do birds eat sharks?"
"Can you walk on water?"

The correct answer to all the questions is "no," and you must eventually elicit a no response from your partner. You may only use the words in the original question. This is how you succeed. No time limit is necessary, but each question should take no more than two minutes.
The purpose of these exercises is to teach the ability remain focused on the goal of the message after being assaulted, ignored or a new direction taken. The partner is at a distance of 18-48 inches, invading the comfort zone of most people and sitting directly across from you in a very confrontational manner.

At the end of each exercise, communication between the participants do not stop. Each partner express his or her true feelings about the other, to them. If anything was said that still has one of the partners upset, each should make certain that they discuss it immediately.

A flaming post is noise. So, do not respond to verbal assaults. Instead, stay focused on the goal of the message you are trying to communicate.



Elements in Communication:

Interpersonal communication includes at least the following elements:

1 - A transmitter. Someone who wants to send information or a concept to someone else.
2 - A receiver. Someone who will receive the information or a concept from the transmitter.
3 - The message. The information or concept the transmitter wants to send.
4 - Noise. Anything that interferes or causes the deletion, distortion or generalization of the exact replication of information being transmitted from the mind of the transmitter to the mind of the receiver.
5 - Feedback. Both the sender and receiver constantly elicit feedback to the other person.
6 - Replication. The duplication of understanding in one person that is in the mind of another person. Replication is an approximate goal and philosophically not perfectly possible, though desired.
7 - Understanding. An approximation of what the message means to the sender by the receiver.

Excellent communication is the ability to transmit a message by the sender to a receiver and have that message replicated in the receiver's mind.

Excellent communication is the ability to receive a transmitted message by the sender and have the receiver be able to replicate the form and intent of the message in the receiver's mind.

If the receiver is uncertain about some aspect of a communication, it is the responsibility of the receiver to clarify the communication through the use of questions.

The transmitting communicator also accepts the responsibility for the result of a communication. This means the transmitter must be certain to code a communication so it is received in a manner that is understandable to the receiver.


Outcome Based Thinking:

Outcome based thinking entails knowing what your objective is before entering into a task. It is difficult to effectively communicate if you do not know what you want.

1 - What precisely do I want out of the process?
2 - What does the other person want? If I/they don't know, what are they likely to want?
3 - What is the least I will accept out of the process?
4 - What problems could come up in the process?
5 - How will I deal with each problem, and if possible, resolve the problem to BENEFIT the other person as well?
6 - How will I bring the process to a conclusion?


Personal Values:

Values differ from person to person and even when people have the same values, their priorities can differ. Two people may each have health and love as extremely important values. One of the people may have love as the most important value, the other could have health. This can have a dramatic effect of these two individuals goals. Learning the values of other people and how they prioritize them is therefore essential to being an effective communicator.

Some questions you can ask yourself as well as the person you are trying to communicate with.

1 - What is most important thing to you about X?
2 - How do you know when you have gotten X?
3 - What's the next most important thing to you about X?
4 - What else is important to you about X?


Closure in Communication:

Closure is the ability to acknowledge the other person and confirm that what was said was understood politely and effectively. Closure is the final step in any segment or cycle of communication. Everyone has experienced communication that did not "end." Someone walked out of a room, hung up the phone, switched subjects in mid-conversation without explaining why, etc.

When complete cycles of communication are not accomplished, it leaves the person with tremendous frustration and often anger. Always be certain to have closure in communication by acknowledging that you have heard and understood what a person has said to you. It is not necessary to agree with someone if you are not prepared to. It is necessary to close each cycle of communication.

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 8:42 pm
by Shensen
Do Gnorts meow?

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 8:45 pm
by Dew
Shensen wrote:Do Gnorts meow?
Yes, if you squeeze them just right. :)

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 8:47 pm
by Shensen
:eek:

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 8:51 pm
by Hashum
While I wish there was an answer to this I don't really think there's much of anything that can be done.

In the end the guidelines are just that guidelines. People will choose to follow them or break them as they see fit. The only thing that can be done is for the community to try to lead by example. No one can enforce them.

If someone makes a mistake we can try to point it out but in the end the person will do what they want to do. If it's a continued behavior then as a community we can choose to omit the person from our stories and ignore them, but other then that we have very little choice.

The suggestion I could make is instead of coming in here and starting flame wars because everyone is pissed how something blew up IG is to post something constructive.

IE. with this recent S&V night instead of flaming Kirt, and Kirt flaming Yala someone (by stander maybe best for objectivity but either party) and smiply explain what happened.

By this I don't mean Kirt F^*# came in slapped me around and because of OOC PM's went ape $h!t and took it IC.

But simply Kirt and I were having an argument OOC he took this argument and used that to put an RP bounty on my head so that MERCS would have just cause to bust a cap in me and the rest of Temple at S&V night. I don't see how this follows the guildines.

Kirt could have then replied. Nyvveck has a bounty on ALL Jedi which is why MERCS and I were there to collect, I wasn't making an OOC argument an RP reason to kill you, I had an RP reason to kill you but you were ignoring that and assuming I was using the OOC argument to post a seperate bounty.

But I think that's probably too much to ask for too.

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 8:53 pm
by Dew
Shensen wrote::eek:
Sorry TMI? :)

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 8:58 pm
by Ekade
In the end you have to ask yourself.. is what I am doing fun for the other person?

If the answer is HELL NO, You are wrong.

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 9:03 pm
by Aknal Dreidel
I think that really should be our goal. Try and make it fun for everyone, make sure there are bad things that happen just to keep it interesting, but make it fun overall.

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 10:38 pm
by Talaraine
Look I know this might be a really harsh comparison...but the fact of the matter is if somebody doesn't want to rp with someone, you should not be forced to.

If a girl thinks a guy is attractive and goes over to talk to him, then he decides to push things too far and she says no and just wants to leave things be...then he decides that's not enough and takes what he wants....

We call that rape.

Call it exclusion, call it what you want. But if someone doesn't want to rp with someone that should be it. Nothing more should follow.

If the 'excluded' person decides to by ANY means to make life miserable for someone IC simply because they refuse to rp with them...its the same thing.

Does nobody care about the fact that a significant portion of Yala's rp time is now off limits because she doesn't want to participate in any events where the aforementioned thugs are present? If anyone pissed off enough can use a 'bounty' as an excuse to hunt down a 'jedi' under a blanket announcement that a guild wants them, even though the player has NOT submitted to become a bounty on the forums, then where does it end?

I'll tell you. It ends in griefing. It means that if anyone makes me angry I will find a reason IC to stick it to them, regardless, and I will be loved by the rp community for it.

Just something to think about.

Jordyn

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 10:45 pm
by KirtViza
Talaraine wrote:Look I know this might be a really harsh comparison...but the fact of the matter is if somebody doesn't want to rp with someone, you should not be forced to.

If a girl thinks a guy is attractive and goes over to talk to him, then he decides to push things too far and she says no and just wants to leave things be...then he decides that's not enough and takes what he wants....

We call that rape.

Call it exclusion, call it what you want. But if someone doesn't want to rp with someone that should be it. Nothing more should follow.

If the 'excluded' person decides to by ANY means to make life miserable for someone IC simply because they refuse to rp with them...its the same thing.

Does nobody care about the fact that a significant portion of Yala's rp time is now off limits because she doesn't want to participate in any events where the aforementioned thugs are present? If anyone pissed off enough can use a 'bounty' as an excuse to hunt down a 'jedi' under a blanket announcement that a guild wants them, even though the player has NOT submitted to become a bounty on the forums, then where does it end?

I'll tell you. It ends in griefing. It means that if anyone makes me angry I will find a reason IC to stick it to them, regardless, and I will be loved by the rp community for it.

Just something to think about.

Jordyn

Considering I was Said to God-Mode, That pisses me off, then because of Somones Dumbass Point of View Im Kicked from her RP world Pisses me off, but I never once Used OOC anything to Do somthing IC. You should read more befor saying I had anything to do with it, My men Asked for persmission to Attack Yala...I gave them the A ok, then The DB happened to Kylie, then we DBed you since you wanted to play hard ball.

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 10:49 pm
by Talaraine
Kirt this issue is being resolved elsewhere. I am using it as an example of why you CAN'T force someone to RP. Don't get this thread locked too plz.
I did pop and was going to do the 1 mill bounty, but by the time i went to post it I noticed somone already posted a General Jedi bounty, and that was our movement against then, Novall had already calmed me down and told me to chill out and not use an OOC attitude to get at her

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 10:50 pm
by Ekade
If someone does not want to RP with you.. GET OVER IT.

It's their choice. You don't have a say in the matter. How right you think you might be is irrelevant.

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 10:51 pm
by Hashum
Talaraine wrote:Look I know this might be a really harsh comparison...but the fact of the matter is if somebody doesn't want to rp with someone, you should not be forced to.

If a girl thinks a guy is attractive and goes over to talk to him, then he decides to push things too far and she says no and just wants to leave things be...then he decides that's not enough and takes what he wants....

We call that rape.

Call it exclusion, call it what you want. But if someone doesn't want to rp with someone that should be it. Nothing more should follow.

If the 'excluded' person decides to by ANY means to make life miserable for someone IC simply because they refuse to rp with them...its the same thing.

Does nobody care about the fact that a significant portion of Yala's rp time is now off limits because she doesn't want to participate in any events where the aforementioned thugs are present? If anyone pissed off enough can use a 'bounty' as an excuse to hunt down a 'jedi' under a blanket announcement that a guild wants them, even though the player has NOT submitted to become a bounty on the forums, then where does it end?

I'll tell you. It ends in griefing. It means that if anyone makes me angry I will find a reason IC to stick it to them, regardless, and I will be loved by the rp community for it.

Just something to think about.

Jordyn
Agreed but your example is pretty bad. Is it fair for someone to participate in an RP story (what if any role Yala had in the jail break of Sepiv I don't know) but she was there, and if she used any Force power's there or even was suspected of possing them is it fair for her to then just say ok that was fun, but now that I should be hunted I don't want to play anymore?

Now don't get me wrong cause I love Yala and think she's a great part of this community in my opinion and experience with her and has always shown a great respect for RP etiquette.

And on the other side though Kirt probably could have done a better job explaining what was going on but I can see why he would be upset. And I can see why Yala would be upset, they both have points, and neither is right and neither is wrong in my opinion. It's the behavior of both since that is wrong.

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 10:52 pm
by Dew
Although comparing this to rape might be a little steep, I understand what you are saying, but if its made clear to the person that rping is not desired and it continues then it needs to be taken to the next step.

Maybe saying something to the leader of the guild in question? Perhaps they are unaware of the problem and they can help calm the problem. And if that doesn't work maybe its something worth reporting to a CSR? If it becomes greifing or abusive then maybe thats what needs to be done.

I dont know all the details with what is oing on here right now, but if one person has been clear on not wanting to rp with another, then why not respect those wishes, there is still plenty of others around to interact with.

PostedTue Nov 01, 2005 11:10 pm
by Oeree
Don't worry Kirt. You can still always beat the shit out of me.... but I'm not much of a challenge...