I am not done

[Zyre Mercutio]

Do I like the changes brought about with the NGE? I pretty much loath everything done to the game with the NGE, the CU I had no problem with.
That being said I have more attachment to the friends I have made here both in and outside of game that even if its a new game to me its worth playing.

I have made more friends here in 2.5 years then I had in the 5 years I played Ultima Online. Even then the community kept me in UO long after a sensible person would have tried DAoC, AC, or EQ. Its worth it to me to play with people I am quite fond of rather then leaving the game. The monthly fee for the game is not gonna break me. SWG for me is more then the sum of its parts, its bad coding, horrible customer service, and abyssmal business practices are countered for me by the friends I have made here. Iago, Bellissima are two folks I met in the flesh that I never would have had I not played SWG. Other friends I have made like Rinna, Xyryn, Prisha, Kionia, Mipharos, Cormyr, Onissosk, Isleh, Batak, Ekade, Yala, Sti-fi, Yro, Hero', Hojo, Shayd, well you get the point, these PEOPLE are enough to offset the game in its current state.

I have lost friends in the game due to the NGE but I look at it like this,
if most of my friends were gathered somewhere else I would go there and play whatever game that might be (so long as its not WOW that is), but while the largest group on my online friends play SWG I shall be here to
play them a tune (hopefully they will fix /sing), hunt (poorly) something
with them and generally enjoy their company. I have played the game since launch, never very focused and never really acquired any uber loot, became a pvp face pwn'ing gawd, nor became the feautured player in a neat story arc. I did meet a lot of nice folks and made some great
friends.

Hope to see ya in game, peace!

Zyre Mercutio
Esh'elon Qatar
Xarr Vitalis

[Jabe Adaks]

I've felt this way for a long time. But I have also had to realize that the vast majority of my friends have already left. That is a major reason for my willingness to depart.

My account will not expire for 7 months. So I will pop in from time to time. But after all the time and effort I have put in to the game and this community - I think I owe it to myself to move on to something that I can have a renewed fun with again.

Jabe

[Novall]

Fun is the primary reason we play MMORPGs. Even though we love to be wth our friends, how satisfied do you feel when you log off? I've been in games that had changes that were pretty big (Fel/Tram split in UO) but never so bad that thousands walked away in the course of a few days.

SWG just isnt fun now. Its like they took something that was to be perfect and made it into a wreck. How do you fuck up Star Wars? You've got to be pretty damn incompetant to do that. I guess thats what sickens me the worst. They took something very perfect and perverted it.

[toront]

the combat was so close to done. A ranger revamp, smuggler content and just the regular balance tweaks and it was finished.

Making it more accessible to new players only needed the implementation of the quests that we got in the NGE, so it wasn't just a pure grind off terminals. I would even say just make double XP permanent to get people to the endgame as soon as possible. There is enough content and repeatable dungeons that the grind does not need to be the majority of the content.

Add a ranking system to the GCW to give PvP a purpose and you're set.


But what do I know...

[Ekade]

I still plan to give the game a chance. I'm just struggling to find the motivation to play lately. Maybe that's a good thing as it will give them the time to fix things a bit.

Zyre is right in that the people are wonderful and certainly the most significant part of the equation. However, the game MUST meet a minimum threshold of fun to keep people. Unfortunately it does not seem to be doing so.

I love my character, I love playing her, I love entertaining you all with her. I love this community. This is a special group. We may not enjoy anything like this again.

I've learned an incredible amount this past 2.5 years about groups and people. I can honestly say I am a better person for having gamed, and flamed, with you all (including those who don't read this).


Novall is right.. How can they mess up Star Wars? I've never wanted the game to bomb.. but lately I think it needs to. The game needs to die and be remade. I never thought I would be saying that.

This 2.5 year experiment has shown that there is a demand of an SWG MMO, but it can't suck. They had a vision, then they lost it and wandered aimlessly.

[Sai'nu]

/salute Zyre

I'm staying at least till I see what their calling the finished NGE product. So far... I like where it's going and I can see exactly where changes can/need/are being worked on or made. Other than having to hit / to begin conversation and making sure my cursor stays over my target for Emotes... I like it. FPS hybrid is what I'd call it. Melee is extremely difficult in this type of format as well.

I'm not surprised to see people leaving... nor am I surprised to see people staying. The experience is what we make of it.

[Shensen]

Couldn't agree more about the people Zyre. Problem for me is that it got to the point where I'd log in and then log off after an hour or so just because I really didn't feel like doing anything. I tried going to Mustafar to do some quests and none of them are completable solo. Tried smacking around some lava fleas, but got smacked around myself.

Did Piket missions on Dant, one at a time piece of cake, squat for xp. Then I thought "What happens when I reach CL90?" and no answer I could come up with made it worth doing. I can RP anywhere so for me the PvE combat is what makes up the bulk of my gametime, but the combat is just horrid. It is so fast I can't even see the normal moves individually let alone the specials.

Anyhoo enough ranting. I'm glad you are still making the most of it. Who knows, maybe I'll reup an account someday and become an entertainer - at least then most of the things that are bothering me wouldn't apply anymore lol :P

[xyryn]

/rant on

This is supposed to be a game of Role players...swgtales was made for roleplayers. So the non-roleplaying stuff is not exciting any more. Phooie.

Try giving the role play a chance. Last nite, after the usual stuff kinda pfizzled at S&V, some new stuff came up. Nyvveck watched and responded to the "action" in a way that made him come across as The Inquisitor with power to back him up. He could have been a combat level 1 for all I knew, but he FELT right.

Hojo and Yasmin played their parts without reference to their combat levels either, and they felt right. It was better rp than I've seen in a long time.

I "heard" Hashum and Rebecca trade death threats. I don't know what their cl's were, but I'd have placed money on Hashum to win. He just was convincing as being a lot more dangerous...

That is role play. I don't know how the participants felt. As part of the audience, I felt that I was in a dangerous place with dangerous people.

It felt good.

/rant off

[Illbleed]

I must disagree with this statement. I don't see anywhere where it says SWG was made for roleplayers. I would agree the very nature of the SW unniverse caters to the traditional roleplayer. I do not think that SOE created this game just for RP'rs. I enjoy a good roleplay session just like most of the community. However, I do believe roleplaying can only take you so far. We all pay our monthly fee to SOE. However if most of one's friends have left the game and the game mechanics are broken the question needs to be asked:

Why should I continue to pay SOE a monthly fee so I can create my own fun which is not even in the game? RP should be a companion to a fun, dynamic game and not take the place of these essential components. I don't really think that's blasphemy. To me it's not being a good steward of my money to continue to pay SOE for an experience I HAVE to create. Why should I have to create my own content? I don't understand the logic in that. The RP should be there to suppliment the creative, fun dynamic world the developers create for us. We should be able to use this tool to effective roleplay.

Hell, I can roleplay playing a traditional pen and paper game and pay a much less money to create a roleplay world that doesn't involve broken mechanics, shady business practices and lost friends.

[xyryn]

Your point is well made.

But if Sai'nu is correct, then changes are happening. Hopefully, the changes will come quickly and be more to our liking. In the meantime, there is rp.

the CU was ok for most of us. Many of us have said that it was a step in the right direction. This ***awful mess they have made can't be their final configuration.

[Oporim]

Things change.

In real life friends go, people die, political systems change, countries break up or merge. In a few year's time you can see drastic changes and if foretold, many are in despair because they don't know what this new changes will bring to them or if they will be able to cope with them. Some things right before they happen seem like the end of the world but after you look back on them and you are able to say 'I lived through that', that is allready something. Realestate prices go low, some people loose a lot with it, others benefit from it. In peace realestate gets overpriced, then war comes and all is worthless. And the circle is complete. Same with stocks and everything else.
Since these are all changes an individual can hardly have a significant influence on, all you can do is adapt, (whine, do nothing and live like a looser), or commit a suicide.

Same is in virtual worlds. Nothing you acquire here will you be able to take with you, once you come to the end of your path or system unexpectedly changes (*). The value of everything is nothing at that point. Stuff suddenly becomes worthless, your aspects undefined, and people desperate.

All you can do is adapt (or commit "suicide").


(*):
Under the late original combat system too-good composite armor, buffs and dots were ruling the areena. Only few professions were PvP-viable. You still hear poeple calling for pre-CU 'with just slight changes'. Then CU came, people didn't like it at first. It was overly simple they said. Late CU degenerated into MCM/MRM MCM/MBH. Again only a few templates are PvP-viable. Same thing happening again. And you can still hear people calling for pre-NGE 'with just slight changes'. Now NGE is here and people don't like it. It is overly simple, again.

There are two inherent problems here. None of which is combat-system per se. First problem (problem in origin) is people allways discover the crack in any system, the crack that allows them to take the maximum advantage of it. And this is normal. It is adaptation. It is seeking out 'the way'. It is because we are an intelligent species. A system which wouldn't allow this would be completely flat, completely balanced, completely uninteresting. Apart from being uninteresting it is also improbable to make a completely flawless system. The more complicated it is, the more flaws it WILL have.
Second problem is people don't like changes. People are in fact conformists, although they claim not to be.

This is why EVERY (to a degree complicated) system will degenerate into an extreme over time. This is why constant changes are allways needed as far as I can see.

[Illbleed]

You've made some valid points. People will always find fault with others and with themselves. It's human nature. It doesn't change the fact that the faults blatantly exist. I'm not against change. It's part of the human dynamic. I'm against a broken ass game and deception and I've stood by my conviction and cancelled. The developers have said as much that we are not playing the final game and that it will further develop over 6 months. Why are we paying to beta test a live game?

Simply "giving up" and rolling with the punches is not the answer. This assumes that we do not have the power to change our reality and our world. It's self defeatist by it's very nature. It's not right to just take it lying down on this one in hopes that the game will "change". Of course it will change..but in whose interest will the change occur? The house always wins. It's how they keep us addicted and paying our monthly fees.

SOE will provide just enough service and empty promises to keep their subscription base to keep that profit rolling in.

[Oporim]

Well I'm refering just to the change of the game - as it was. Leave it long enough and it will surely degrade. If changed, it depends on one's expectations for the game and "tolerance width" how much (s)he is willing to adapt to. (*)

As far as SOE public/customer relations go, that is a whole different problem I am not saying doesn't exist. Both parties have a point. You, as a customer who was goofed by ToOW and NGE, but you still have the power to quit and SOE was fair enough to offer a refund. And SOE since they are developers they have the right to change anything without consulting anyone prior to the change. And leaving because of this is not what I was refering to in the previous post.


(*):
I've read some points on why NGE sucks on SOE forums, and I found them either
- solvable immediately (issues with UI for example)
- some are valid and should be given some time to be addressed (like Jedi I guess, and current buggs)
- some are just based on incomplete (biased) analysis of the game developement in the past, or are drawn in a haste
To this last one, many changes in this game happened because the public wanted them to happen or they (naturally, let's say Darwinistically) drove it to that point. And yet, they were never satisfied with what they were calling for. I'm also seeing a lot of comments "I don't like it this way not one bit" even though they admit they have given it only a short trial, and got probably stuck at UI issue or one that will be addressed in some time. One or two day trial I simply don't accept as a valid argument (for leaving because of 'technical reasons').

I'm speaking this also because I once left this game for a long time. And if I look back at it now, I know it was partly because it sucked and partly because I was unwilling to give it a full try. I expected too much and gave in too little effort. And the less I played, less desire I had to do so in the future, and so on, spiralling downwards until I forgot about it. When CU came, I took a look at it for a couple of days and left immediately. Strangely, when I came back again next month and gave it a full sweep, I found it OK, better than the pre-CU.

[Novall]

I guess Oporim, the fact that they wasted our time with all these revamps and basically lied to people who were waiting on them is what makes people more mad then anything else.

When I go out and buy something, I shouldn't have to change my whole reality because the person I'm buying it from thinks it will work better that way. They should be changing it around me, as a customer.

They didnt do this. They basically thew this out, buggy and half assed (like always) and said "here...take it or leave it."

Why did we even have a CU before this? It's only been 6 months. Do you think LA just dropped this down infront of them one day in October and said "here guys, we made these enhancements for SWG. Now go publish them!"? No. According to them they had "Focus" groups, internal testing ect ect which showes they had been working on this either just after or right before the last CU. They threw out these things like "Smuggler Revamp, Ranger Revamp, Squad Leader Revamp" as a smoke screen lie so we would think they were working on really improving the current system.

The more I think about that, the more pissed I get.

[Jabe Adaks]

I agree with Novall. We got bent.

Jabe