The Politics of The Empire.

[Isleh]

The Common Citizen

Consider Sral, the moisture farmer.Why would he support the Empire?

Maybe that the old republic and it's bureaucracy may have been more opressive? e.g.

• For years the Sral family was strugging to get support for a law that would regulate water prices on Tatooine and over the last few generations the Srals have been struggling harder and harder and the republic bureaucracy did case study after case study.
  
  Now the Empire has come along and fixed water prices and the Sral faimly is in the black for the first time in generations.
  
  Sure, the Lars family were killed and burned out of their home but they were harboring and aiding a known criminal (Ben Knobie) and their son became the leader of some leftist military orgnization.

Could it be that the common day to day life of the average citizen has changed very little or not at all with the Empire? Palpatine wants control of the galaxy and if he can control the galaxy by not interfearing with the pathetic misrible lives of the common citizen? So much the better.

This consideration sets the stage for the political mindset of the common citizen.

The people in Power

Also I really don't think you would see the atypical Central American Dictator type (or they would not last very long). That stereotype misses one thing. The Opressive Dictator Ruling over top of them and other Regional Governors ready to take over with the the possible help of Papaltine. The atypical Central American Dictator type Regional Governors would be replaced by the Grand Moff Tarkins very soon.

How would a Moff, who can survive this political atmosphere, react to an abuse of power by his subordinates that drew the attention of the public? I think the Imperial Investigation into an incident like this would go along the lines of

A: Did it futher my goals?
B: Did it hinder my goals?
C: Did it futher the goals of the Empire?
D: Did it hinder the goals of the Empire?
E: Can I get blamed?

This is not a political system where you want to provide anything that could be used against you. Someone who blantly disregards Imperial law, regardless of their position, would be providing ammunitation for their rivals.

[Nyvveck]

It's also worth a point to note the loyalty displayed by the military towards the Emperor. Commonly, in oppressive situations, military coups happen often, with a new general always trying to take over power. From my (somewhat limited) understanding, this has never happened to the Emperor.

I feel it should also be pointed out that many of the lowly bureaucrats of the Empire would have no idea of what was truely going on. Close to this is the fact that, after Tarkin's death and the end of the Tarkin Doctrine, the Empire adopted a much more "Make the citizen think we are good rulers" type approach, easily seen through them trying to blame the Rebellion about the destruction of Alderaan. Had the Tarkin Doctrine still been in effect, Alderaan would have been held up as an example of what happens to those that betry the Emperor.

Why is all this important? It shows that it is entirely possible to RP an Imperial good guy. Most Imperials do not have any idea of the full picture going on. Many of those that serve the Empire are good people. They simply see themselves as a force of order in the galaxy, with the Rebellion being the force of chaos.

[Ekade]

If you can find an old copy of the "Imperial Sourcebook" from West End games, it has a lot of good "stuff" about the empire and how it works.


I strongly suspect the original designers of SWG used the West End Games RP books. A lot of the ideas and descriptions you see in SWG are almost verbatim from the West End Games books.

[Sai'nu]

They used every available resource in the making of it at the time. I'm just surprised they missed things like not letting someone be called Sorosuub or Sienar. Both big hitters in the Industrial Empire. One of them even an Alien company.

WEG supports a lot of what Isleh is saying though. (owns most of the WEG books). I've even seen some very good structure to the Imperial ranking system done in a a short lived California-based Galactic Empire fan club I belonged to before it sunk.

I guess something we could work on is... believeable Rebel roles with Imperials. Or, how to play an Imperial Citizen?

[xyryn]

Think this should be copied to the RP ThinkTank II. This fits under the heading of base structure for the game.

[Isleh]

Think this should be copied to the RP ThinkTank II. This fits under the heading of base structure for the game.

That forum has limited access. I would like to take a survey of everyone's opinion and then we can work on a write-up in that forum.

[Shensen]

Imo you don't need any books to get a feel for the common layperson. I mean you have to take into consideration that the "people" didn't get to watch Episodes 1-3 like we did so they don't know everything was planned.

The way the Emperor laid everything out it DID sound like the Jedi were trying to overthrow the republic. Being that he was more or less the leader, the other members of the senate either had to believe him or chose not to believe him and join the rebellion, and most likely those senators would relay that information to their own home planets. Another factor which didn't get any airtime was journalism - the media had to be reporting all kinds of stuff (probably regulated by the Empire).

So along those lines I see the common people not really having a strong love for Jedi in general regardless of alignment. The one thing about the movies that really bothered me was the end of RoTJ where it shows all the people out celebrating the dethroning of the Emperor. I really don't think it would be that way since the rebellion was the minority.

I would think upon the Emperor's death (caused by Jedi) there would have been a large scale civil war/struggle for power with perhaps the Governors stepping up to keep order. While the end of RoTJ was the typical "happy ending" I hated it.

[Sai'nu]

Save for one thing. The Emperor is using the Force to keep a vast part of the Empire under his control and running. When he dies, that power which held everyone in his control is lifted. People are freed to be themselves again. I think that's what George Lucas was pointing at with that.

[Shensen]

I don't see it that way. I don't see the Emperor as one using the force in a mind control capacity spanning the galaxy. I he was powerful but that's pushing it imo. I think his commanders and local government officials kept law and order running and he had to do very little but concentrate on more important matters such as the rebuilding of the Death Star and quelling possible threats to his rule i.e. the rebellion/Luke

It also struck me as sort of a continuity issue that Vader never sense Leia's affinity to the force.

[Isleh]

Imo you don't need any books to get a feel for the common layperson. I mean you have to take into consideration that the "people" didn't get to watch Episodes 1-3 like we did so they don't know everything was planned.

The way the Emperor laid everything out it DID sound like the Jedi were trying to overthrow the republic. Being that he was more or less the leader, the other members of the senate either had to believe him or chose not to believe him and join the rebellion, and most likely those senators would relay that information to their own home planets. Another factor which didn't get any airtime was journalism - the media had to be reporting all kinds of stuff (probably regulated by the Empire).

So along those lines I see the common people not really having a strong love for Jedi in general regardless of alignment. The one thing about the movies that really bothered me was the end of RoTJ where it shows all the people out celebrating the dethroning of the Emperor. I really don't think it would be that since the rebellion was the minority.

I would think upon the Emperor's death (caused by Jedi) there would have been a large scale civil war/struggle for power with perhaps the Governors stepping up to keep order. While the end of RoTJ was the typical "happy ending" I hated it.

It's been a while since I've seen RoTJ. I don't remember a galactic celebration but rather the people surrounding and who had contact with the main characters celebrating. The EU does reflect the Governors stepping up to keep order I think as well.

The attempt to make parallels to the British Empire were pretty blatant.

Regarding the media, we can't forget that the Republic had control of the media prior to Empire. So while the Empire is now painting the Jedi as a force of evil, the Jedi were painting the Sith as the force of evil. The public opinion at this point probably is along the lines that all force users are evil.

The Jedi attempted to assassinate the Chancellor rather than let him face his accusers before the senate. It was only thwarted by a young Jedi Knight's sense of justice and who had not yet been corrupted by them. Sadly, these Jedi extracted a horrible revenge and left this young Knight maimed and disfigured after killing his pregnant wife right before his eyes.

Truth? Hardly but the media are tools when it comes to a story such as this.

[Shensen]

Well regarding the media, I not so sure the Jedi ever painted a very public picture of the Sith for the public. They never really seemed to discuss the sith other than amongst themselves.

I do agree that the public was probably wary of any force user.

"The Jedi attempted to assassinate the Chancellor rather than let him face his accusers before the senate. It was only thwarted by a young Jedi Knight's sense of justice and who had not yet been corrupted by them. Sadly, these Jedi extracted a horrible revenge and left this young Knight maimed and disfigured after killing his pregnant wife right before his eyes."

As for the above story, I could totally see the media selling this since this is probably more or less what was fed to them.

[Krusshyk]

..."The Jedi attempted to assassinate the Chancellor rather than let him face his accusers before the senate. It was only thwarted by a young Jedi Knight's sense of justice and who had not yet been corrupted by them. Sadly, these Jedi extracted a horrible revenge and left this young Knight maimed and disfigured after killing his pregnant wife right before his eyes."

As for the above story, I could totally see the media selling this since this is probably more or less what was fed to them.

Sounds like Reuters has field offices in galaxies far far away as well as in our neck of the woods.

[Isleh]

Save for one thing. The Emperor is using the Force to keep a vast part of the Empire under his control and running. When he dies, that power which held everyone in his control is lifted. People are freed to be themselves again. I think that's what George Lucas was pointing at with that.

If that were true, then the common rebel solider couldn't exist.

Vader: "They are on Hoth, my Master"
Emperor: "*Mmmmmm..... I am thinking of hoth* <bing!> All your troops are belong to me!"

[Ekade]

The Heir to the Empire book trillogy was the first to suggest the Emperor used the force to influence battles.

The movies never suggested this.


Is it Crap or Canon? You be the judge!


Can it be done?
1) A force can sense things without seeing them. (Luke versus the drone)
2) A force user can make suggestions to others. (Obi-wan, "these are not the droids you are looking for.)
3) Range/Distance may or may not be a limitation. (Vader choking the officer on another ship suggests distance is not a problem. At the same time Vader only being able to sense Luke when he is relatively close suggests it is. Another source tells us Yoda went to Dagobah to hide and lived near the "dark-side" cave in hopes of it hard to detect his "light-side". Does this suggest that distance alone is not enough?)

What's to say a force user can't attune himself to the local force and sense the flow of a battle and nudge the participants to ensure a favorable outcome?


We do not know the limitations of the force. I am of the belief that the force is unlimited and that the only true limitations lie within the individual using it.

Yoda's teachings align with this idea. "Size matters not." If size does not matter.. what does? (And don't say "hu hu.. it's how you use it".)

[Sai'nu]

Save for one thing. The Emperor is using the Force to keep a vast part of the Empire under his control and running. When he dies, that power which held everyone in his control is lifted. People are freed to be themselves again. I think that's what George Lucas was pointing at with that.

If that were true, then the common rebel solider couldn't exist.

Vader: "They are on Hoth, my Master"
Emperor: "*Mmmmmm..... I am thinking of hoth* <bing!> All your troops are belong to me!"

The Force only works on the weak minded. The Rebels were not of that ilk. But, before we get into the debate about "Oh, so your saying an Imperial Soldier isn't as good as a Rebel Soldier." Please let me add a few points...

The Emperor, and this isn't even EU material, is suggested (before we even see E1-3) to have manipulated the Empire into being. He's taken control of the people. And he's using, not only the Force on the Senate and his commanders, but the tools of Fear, Oppression, and Force (not the magic kind) to do it. It is an Empire ruled by one man.

I'm pretty sure George in one interview or another did point out that it was the Emperor doing this; So, when he dies, everyone is freed. Hense the celebration.