Scoundrel Poll: In Defense of Lando

[Keer]

I know there are some that aren't fans of the "Expanded Universe" side of the SW lore (and for the most part I'm not either) but there's at least 2 concepts that I do like alot. One of them is the elaboration on the history between Han & Lando. The other pertains to some of the funding for the Alliance.

Firstly, in general most fans believe that Lando Calrissian "redeemed himself" by saving Han & Crew with a slick move here and there on Bespin. That Lando was a big sellout at first then did the right thing. I say that there's more in the story to give Lando credit for.

"You got a lot of nerve comin' here...after what YOU pulled!" That's what Lando tells Han when Han & Co. first arrive in Bespin. For almost 20 years everyone wondered what Lando could possibly be talking about. Then "The Han Solo Trilogy" (NOT to be confused with the infinitely superior 1980-81 "Han Solo Adventures") came out about 1997 and set the record straight on that. It seems that about a year or so before Han & Chewie first met Obi-Wan and Luke on Tattooine, Han organized a large cadre of mercenary smugglers to raid a spice mine owned by the huge Hutt Cartel. With the help of the then, "proto"- Rebel Alliance, the idea was to hit the mines, take away the spice, divide it up, and every body ride off into the starset rich, happy, and retired.

Of course, it didn't work out that way, because after the successful raid, the leader of the Rebel part of the Strike Team, Bria Tharen (who happened to also be Han's first love), stole all of the Spice at gunpoint, cutting all of the rest of the smugglers out of the score. (She went on to use the spice to finance the start-up of the Rebel Alliance!).

The smugglers that trusted Solo ( Lando included) blamed Han for the double cross since he was the one who recruited them. Also it was known that Solo had a personal relationship with the Rebel double crosser, which made them even more suspicious of Solo.

The mercenary smugglers all went away pissed off at Han which earned him a bad reputation among his criminal peers. He then sets off to Tattooine to try to get back on track (cue Episode 4 ).

That's the first concept that I liked about that 1997 trilogy. The second concept was that, like so many other recent rebellions/revolutions currently and in recent history (a la Colombia right now), the author portrays the "insurgent" Rebels as originally financed by what!? OMG, SPICE! The Rebels sold drugs to pay for weapons, training, X-Wings, Leia's hairstylist, etc, etc.!

Now, with all of that in mind let's address the "Scoundrel Question". It's obvious that, even though Lando still had some hard feelings toward Han, he did try to warn him off at the Cloud City landing pad ("You no good, dirty double crosser...").

You have to agree that Lando was hoping that Han's "crook sense" would kick in and and he would "get the message" that he probably should turn around and launch ship! Lando would still be able to tell Vader, "hey, Solo just bounced! Said something about meeting Skywalker in the Corporate Sector" (saving face with Vader). But of course, after dodging a million asteroids, a space slug, and a lost nookie opportunity with Leia, Solo's senses were understandably a little dull to Lando's sideways alarm.

So, I submit to all of you that Lando is NOT the bigger scoundrel. He could have not tried to warn Han off at all. Even though he did eventually sell him out, he did come back and "trade it all" to help his old boy out in the clutch! If he was the bigger scoundrel, Lando's response to Vader's "permanent garrison" order would have been "Great! I'll draw up credit chips so they can all gamble on the house!".

Solo, WAS, the bigger scoundrel for even expecting Lando's help after the Hutt Spice raid. Solo didn't have many options, but still it's like asking to borrow money from people that you already owe! That's "Scoundrel" fa' real! Even Chewie barked something that drew Solo's response "Well, I'm sure he's forgotten about that".

So my vote is Solo for bigger Scoundrel.

What do you think?

[MrDooo]

I'm a movies only guy. The only expanded universe I've been witness to is what I read on message boards .

Without any of this 'expanded' knowledge that you've laid out here, Keer, Lando is the Man. The only scoundreling Solo really shows us is that he's egocentric. What does he actually do that makes him so much of a scoundrel? Lando on the other hand sold them out at Bespin. Not that he had much of a choice, but the warning you speak of is practically non-existent. Was he bugged? Were his guards on Vader's side? Why not just tell them it's a trap and let them try and run?

Plus, I had to be contrary. It's my job.


Dooo

[X'an Shin]

Lando's the WAY bigger scoundrel.

A). He somehow fast-talked someone out of not only a gas mining company, but an ENTIRE FLOATING CITY.
B). He puts the moves on Han's girl RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.

Oh yeah, Lando's a Hooooooge scoundrel.

[E-bo Obi]

I think Han starts to show great Personal Courage and Integrity, starting at the end of ep IV and all through ep V. I mean he had everything he needed to get himself out of a jam. He had credits and opportunity to safely escape the rebellion and pay off the Hutt.

Whats he do instead?

He takes out the TIE fighters that are on Luke's tail so Luke can kill the Deathstar. Then he goes out in the freezing cold, knowing fully well he may die, to rescue his friend on Hoth. Then he decides to save Leia instead of running off the planet to pay off the Hutt.

What does Lando do?

He cuts a deal with the Empire to save his own butt. Then when the deal turns sour, and only then, he decides ok.. Maybe its best I help these guys get off Bespin and perhaps get some kind of help from the Rebels. Because at this point he is looking at being a prisoner of the Empire.

Just my 2 cents. Lando doesn't redeem himself til EP VI.

[Lok'i Vidaar]

Hands down Lando.. Everyone here already made the points for my argument ;)

[Rye]

did you know the person who plays lando is the guy who used to do the colt 45 beer commercials

[Lok'i Vidaar]

Solo, WAS, the bigger scoundrel for even expecting Lando's help after the Hutt Spice raid. Solo didn't have many options, but still it's like asking to borrow money from people that you already owe!

How can he be held responsible for that. I understand everyone thought that was his fault but it wasn't so how could Solo be the bigger scoundrel because of that??

I can see through Lando's Eyes he is.. but we have all of the info so I don't think that has any relevance to the whole scheme of him bieng more of a scoundrel. I mean he was trying to make Lando some money and it went sour.. That wasn't his fault, even if Lando Blamed him for it.

[Ekade]

The problem here is that the movie's definition of scoundrel is not in line with the classical definition of the word.

scoundrel: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=scoundrel
n : a wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately
a. Low; base; mean; unprincipled.
A mean, worthless fellow; a rascal; a villain; a man without honor or virtue.
A villain; a rogue.

Lets look at the definition of rogue:

rogue http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rogue
An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.
One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.


To me, they are both accomplished scoundrels (rogues). And they both have redeeming qualities.

However, I have to give it to Lando. He wins because he is utterly shameless. It's the way he talks. The way he immediately walks up to Leia and kisses her hand and starts pouring on the "smooth". His game is well practiced.

Han is to busy getting chased around and hanging out with a smelly wookiee (no offense, I love wookies).

"He's a scoundrel, you'd like him."

[Ekade]

And to derail your thread..

We WILL have a poll on who of the notable gentlemen here is the biggest scoundrel in character!!

[E-bo Obi]

And to derail your thread..

We WILL have a poll on who of the notable gentlemen here is the biggest scoundrel in character!!

I know who the biggest scoundrel is... But I could hardly call any of them gentlemen =-P

[Seret Sajet]

Lando's the WAY bigger scoundrel.

A). He somehow fast-talked someone out of not only a gas mining company, but an ENTIRE FLOATING CITY.
B). He puts the moves on Han's girl RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.

Oh yeah, Lando's a Hooooooge scoundrel.

I'll agree to that list plus add one more...

C) He made a deal with VADER

C'mon, movies or expanded universe, that tips the scales. I don't believe even Han would sell anyone out to the Lord of Evil. Sure he redeemed himself later but that had to hurt.

[Keer]

Wow! This is interesting. It just goes to show how people can surprise you!

From the replies it looks like some of you think that being a scoundrel is a plus, others a minus. The "plus" wasn't something that I expected, but cool. Y'all got me thinking on a new angle here.

Incidentally folks, part of the reason for the poll is I'm mining for deeper angles on the personna of a slick hustler in general, Keer Tregga's personna in particular. The other reason is because it's just fun to talk about.

Even though Lando didn't see Han taking so hard a fall ("That wasn't part of the arrangement! Neither was delivering Han to this Bounty Hunter!"), you have all made good points. In particular X'an's with Seret's add-on. The "deal with Vader" was the clincher. DAMN YOU! , but you're right. And Dooo, it's cool. If contrary is your job, you'll get overtime pay with me.

And something else. Lando wears a cape. If that doesn't ooze "scoundrel"...

So okay, yeah, switch my vote to Lando (being a Florida voter I'm used to it).

I have always envisioned Keer Tregga as "walking the walk" that Han Solo just talked. "I'm not in it for her or the Rebellion. I'm in it for the money!" Yeah, uh-huh, sure. Or better yet one of my all time favorite fictional characters, Rick Blaine of Casablanca who is a good mixture of Han & Lando. Of course Rick, Han, and Lando all cave in and that always made me think "What if the guy didn't cave in?" Enter: Keer Tregga.

I'm glad also because this thread has inspired one of the "Great Star Wars Mysteries" that I've often puzzled over but never posed. But, I'll save that for another day. TEASE!

*looks for the closest thing to a cape in SWG Wear*

[X'an Shin]

did you know the person who plays lando is the guy who used to do the colt 45 beer commercials

GET. OUT.