WoW

[Hashum]

I will be the last person standing on Gorath.

Well I'd be giving you a run for your money.

[Sepiv]

(feels curious pulling sensation to look at WoW...)

Just slowly back away Jinx...slowly back away.

Heehee!

No...must...move...towards...the light...so...inviting... :-D

Star Wars forever!

I find Lok'i's comment interesting though about being more into sci-fi than fantasy though -- Star Wars is really space fantasy with the mystic Force and even "science" that borders on magic, truthfully. Really it's what gives Star Wars its mythic quality of good vs. evil in my opinion. If there were a LOTR MMORPG...well that would be verrrry interesting and tempting.

[Keer]

So tell me about the RP aspects of the game. Is there anything that facilitates player driven content?

I'm not making a case for WoW here, but the question's been asked and from a strictly Role Play perspective WoW gives worthy answers. Hey, we talk about DOOM 3, Call of Duty, and other games here, why not Worlds of Warcraft?

There's tons of Roleplayer driven content. This series is over 10 years old and has all the epic story bona fides that should go with it. One of the complaints made by some about Warcraft 3 was that it was too story driven ! *shrug*

Yes there's more to it than the races and classes that were mentioned earlier. There are Factions and then there's factions within factions. Each of them with profound and compelling motives for the stances that they take.

**And this Roleplay is enhanced by the game design, not the other way around.**

The Alliance vs. The Horde

Within the Alliance you've got the Night Elves that patronize the "infantile" Humans, who look at those Elves back with scorn because of their legacy of reckless magic.

The Gnomes earned some grudges against them for being too pre-occupied in the last war against the Horde.

The Orcs, recently defecting to the Alliance, are viewed with cynical reservation by everyone in the Alliance. The Orcs say "Deal with it!" because they were kept on Reservations after/during the war, LOL. Which brings us to who the Orcs defected from...the Horde.

The Horde consist of the races that fell from past glory in their respective ways or nearly gained dominance recently. The Orcs are viewed by all of them as sell outs.

The Trolls are an ancient race that want their ancestral lands back from Human encroachment.

The Blood Elves allied with the Horde because they crave all forms of magic, not seeing a distinction between "good and bad".

The Undead are part of the Horde as a strategic convenience. They secretly hate all "living" things and would trade their allies and enemies alike to Nether Demons for self-determination.

Apart from both of those factions you've got those same Demons that want to set the whole world ablaze and drink it's latent magic.

And this is just what I can remember! Plenty of RP material there.

(I am glad so many of us are SW fans and plan on sticking around. )

Being a "Star Wars fan" and not "sticking around" aren't mutually exclusive states.

I respectfully submit that many people don't want to recognize that there are many "true" Star Wars fans that have either left SWG or might leave it for any number of valid reasons. They don't all have to be "bandwagon jumpers", "un-true SW fans", or immature "OWNER" types.

[Ekade]

Thank you, Keer, for the historical recap.

What I am looking for is this..

**And this Roleplay is enhanced by the game design, not the other way around.**

How so?

What about the game design itself facilitates roleplay?

In other words.. as a Roleplayer, how is WoW better than SWG? What is WoW going to give me, or do better than SWG?

[Keer]

Thank you, Keer, for the historical recap.

What I am looking for is this..

**And this Roleplay is enhanced by the game design, not the other way around.**

How so?

What about the game design itself facilitates roleplay?

In other words.. as a Roleplayer, how is WoW better than SWG? What is WoW going to give me, or do better than SWG?

Right off the top of the head, as I pointed out, there are more pre-existing relations between the different races outside of the main Faction vs. Faction conflict. In SWG terms the design has left the non-GCW roleplayers to fend for themselves. Alot of what we're doing here in SWGTales is the result of that content gap.

Also the game design doesn't support you having to pretend that a whole profession doesn't exist (Jedi) because it's so whacked out for immersion considerations.

Those are just two things and I'd have more if I didn't have to go offline now.

Apart from that, do you see the point about how being a "fan" doensn't necessarily have anything to do with "sticking around" ?

[Rye]

i like the drug dealer

[Hashum]

Well I can understand the points about WoW because of the history behind the game, but if you think 10 years of history in Warcraft is enough, don't forget there's almost 30 years of history in Star Wars, not just the movies but the books, both prequals to the movie and post Episode VI. The content from those books allows for a great deal of RP in SWG, so I don't see how a small history from 3 games really gives you all that much extra content to RP with. Now I have to admit I am a huge fantasy buff, Elves are especially attractive to me, and the thought of playing a Drow Elf Druid or Warrior is quite appealing to me however I just don't see as many options, again one reason for that (correct me if I'm wrong) is that I don't like class driven games. I hate having to choose between fighting and magic. SWG allows me to mix and match, now unless I become FS or Jedi I have no "Magic" persay to choose from, however I can be a crafter/fighter for medic/fighter/crafter/pilot where in your typical fantasy game RPG's you have to pick one and just run with it. I often get bored quickly or have to have multiple characters to get the all my wants fulfilled in games like that and quickly tire of them because of having to start over from scratch to try something slightly different. So I'm more concerned about reports of a LotR RPG for the PC coming out. Now that's something I'd have trouble resisting. I'm addicted to the card game as it is, put it in RPG format and resistance would be futile.

[X'an Shin]

I think the problem with RP in WoW isn't the rich storytelling history (as Keer points out, it's rife with plotlines and relationships to pull from), but rather, the problem is that this is the first game in the Warcraft line that allows for any sort of RPability.

The vast majority of Warcraft fans and players aren't into fantasy, nor are they into role-play. They're into real-time strategy ownage, and Warcraft is the best game on the market for that. Almost the entire demographic of people who want to play WoW because it lives in the Warcraft universe don't give two gold coins if people RP or not.

I think where you're going to get the RPers from are from the folks leaving Everquest (in droves) here, and other RPG style games, and those folks aren't as aware of the plot histories as the old Warcraft gamers are.

[Ekade]

Right off the top of the head, as I pointed out, there are more pre-existing relations between the different races outside of the main Faction vs. Faction conflict. In SWG terms the design has left the non-GCW roleplayers to fend for themselves. Alot of what we're doing here in SWGTales is the result of that content gap.

How does this enhance roleplay? I still see the need for the same things we are doing here. If I am a night elf, does this mean I am constantly at war with.. say the orcs? If not, won't I have to do the same things as must happen here to simulate conflict? Duelling, guildwar, etc.?

Also the game design doesn't support you having to pretend that a whole profession doesn't exist (Jedi) because it's so whacked out for immersion considerations.

Very true. On the flipside, if WoW screws up a profession like SOE did to Jedi, nobody cares. There are no professions in WoW that are iconic in our culture. The expectations are vastly lower.

Apart from that, do you see the point about how being a "fan" doensn't necessarily have anything to do with "sticking around" ?

Yes, I did see you state your point. All three times.

*whispers* traitor

KIDDING!!!


Also, can anyone tell me how leveling works? Is it never ending? I played Asherons call for 4 months and quit out of sheer boredom. Nobody roleplayed because they were constantly leveling.

[Scosciss]

X'an you couldn't be more WRONG about RP in The Warcraft Universe. Its not that apparent in the RTS style Games. But there are Massive communities of RP'ers and the RP is going to be real. The quests are going to be more like a single player style where there is a storyline so there easier to get into. So I think there will be a good PC RP community and I believe In Blizzard. I mean they are still putting patches out to fix Diablo and Starcraft 1 and these are OLD FREE games. So I think there will be better content in this game. I just have more Faith in Blizzard then SOE. JUST MY OPINION

[Keer]

Well I can understand the points about WoW because of the history behind the game, but if you think 10 years of history in Warcraft is enough, don't forget there's almost 30 years of history in Star Wars

You're misunderstanding here. The 10 years I refer to are not game storyline years but the time that the franchise has been on the market. The Warcraft franchise storyline goes back millions of years.

The content from those books allows for a great deal of RP in SWG, so I don't see how a small history from 3 games really gives you all that much extra content to RP with.

I personally didn't want to go there with the "time comparison", but if you see it as a plus, as I've said there's a longer game history versus the Star Wars documented one.

And the Warcraft books?! On a book for book basis Warcraft is much more mature and gritty than Star Wars has ever been. Now maybe that's not you're taste, but one thing that Warcraft authors don't have to worry about is pissing off George Lucas' newer sentimental tastes. In the Warcraft style, Han would still have shot first and Boba Fett would have been allowed to kick ass. Bottom line.

I just don't see as many options, again one reason for that (correct me if I'm wrong) is that I don't like class driven games. I hate having to choose between fighting and magic. SWG allows me to mix and match

WoW doesn't force you to choose either. Paladin, Priest, and Druid are all "mixed" classes. You can't put WoW in that old basket.

So I'm more concerned about reports of a LotR RPG for the PC coming out. Now that's something I'd have trouble resisting. I'm addicted to the card game as it is, put it in RPG format and resistance would be futile.

Wouldn't like WoW but would have trouble resisting LoTR? Hmm, is this about brand names again?

Right off the top of the head, as I pointed out, there are more pre-existing relations between the different races outside of the main Faction vs. Faction conflict. In SWG terms the design has left the non-GCW roleplayers to fend for themselves. Alot of what we're doing here in SWGTales is the result of that content gap.

How does this enhance roleplay? I still see the need for the same things we are doing here. If I am a night elf, does this mean I am constantly at war with.. say the orcs? If not, won't I have to do the same things as must happen here to simulate conflict? Duelling, guildwar, etc.?

If what I have already broken down doesn't spark for you, then the best I can do is wish that you'll find someone that you know personally who is a WoW Beta tester or imagine what RP would be like yourself, via the game's website. That and look at my above quote, focusing on the words non-GCW roleplayer to fend for themselves and content gap. *shrug*

Also the game design doesn't support you having to pretend that a whole profession doesn't exist (Jedi) because it's so whacked out for immersion considerations.

Very true. On the flipside, if WoW screws up a profession like SOE did to Jedi, nobody cares.

HUH!? You wouldn't care. Realize that there are fans of the Warcraft franchise that would care as much about "screwed up" professions there as they do here....and that some of those fans are one and the same *points at myself*

That reads to me like "Very true. On the flipside we don't want the truth!" LOL.

There are no professions in WoW that are iconic in our culture. The expectations are vastly lower.

*double take* Naw, Star Wars professions like Jedi just find their inspiration from Medieval/Biblical/Mythological characters. Warcraft has no connection in that "culture" whatsoever. *confused*

And don't let SOE off the hook for screwing up Jedi because (in your view) "expectations are vastly lower" for "X". Jedi could have been alot less borked with those same expectations.

Apart from that, do you see the point about how being a "fan" doensn't necessarily have anything to do with "sticking around" ?

Yes, I did see you state your point. All three times.

Oh, sorry, if 3 times is too much then let's go back and count how many times in the thread that points are made against WoW in favor of SWG... with less valid foundation!. I'm sure that I'm in the minority in that category.

*whispers* traitor

KIDDING!!!

*smirk* *yells* Fangirl

...this is the first game in the Warcraft line that allows for any sort of RPability.

What was the first game in the Star Wars line that allowed for any sort of RPability? Could it be Galaxies, maybe?

And before you mention the Star Wars PnP games, remember that Warcraft is a descendant of the Dungeons & Dragons genre, the game that started it all!

The vast majority of Warcraft fans and players aren't into fantasy, nor are they into role-play. They're into real-time strategy ownage and Warcraft is the best game on the market for that. Almost the entire demographic of people who want to play WoW because it lives in the Warcraft universe don't give two gold coins if people RP or not.

What about all of the people that came into Star Wars for RP? Are they not some of the same people who enjoyed X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter or the multi-player version of the Jedi Knight series? Both games were "real time ownage". Once again y'all some of the fans are one and the same *points at me again* Why must there be a wall? Demographics can also be "De-mosaics" if you ask the right question of the computer or polling person correlating the info. Demosaics find overlapping customer/fan bases.

I think where you're going to get the RPers from are from the folks leaving Everquest (in droves) here, and other RPG style games, and those folks aren't as aware of the plot histories as the old Warcraft gamers are.

Are you sure about their ignorance of the Warcraft histories? It's hard to explain to you if you don't know the stories, but if I had a "gold coin" for every player in SWG who has a character's name from Warcraft, I could pay Sony to double their SWG development staff, LOL. The "aware" audience is out there, my brotha.

NOW, judging from the feedback that this topic has generated overall and just from what I've answered in this post alone, I can see that I'm in the wronnnnng place to make fair and balanced commentary on any game that competes favorably to SWG. Damn, if I ain't one of the only scouts on the frontier here!

Once again I love the Star Wars ideals. My Star Wars bona fides are impeccable. But, I can still look at Galaxies with an open mind and recognize credit where credit is due.

A competing franchise can get it right too ya' know...and sometimes better!

*"washes hands" of the topic*

[Lok'i Vidaar]

I don't like warcraft.
/laugh

I played the earlier games and they turned me off from it.. I'm just not into it. I don't like it.

I like RTS games. I looooovee starcraft.. I liked Red Alert, RA2.

Warcraft... Not so much...

That is all.

[Nyase]

If there were a LOTR MMORPG...well that would be verrrry interesting and tempting.

There's one coming out. It's called middle earth, or something like that. I have a friend who quit EQ and is eagerly awaiting it's launch.

[Ekade]

Your original claim was that the game design of WoW facilitated roleplay.

I asked: "How?"

You said there were more races.

I said, "Yes, but how does this enhance roleplay? Will we not have to do many of the same things we do here?" You cited the efforts we had to take to bridge the content gap in SWG. It sounds to me like we have to do the same thing in WoW.

Your reply:

If what I have already broken down doesn't spark for you, then the best I can do is wish that you'll find someone that you know personally who is a WoW Beta tester or imagine what RP would be like yourself, via the game's website. That and look at my above quote, focusing on the words non-GCW roleplayer to fend for themselves and content gap. *shrug*

Sure, I can use my imagination and creativity in WoW to make RP work. I am doing the same here.

**And this Roleplay is enhanced by the game design, not the other way around.**

Again.. HOW? How does WOW succeed in bridging the content gap where SWG fails? Your answer was "more factions". And that is fine. I was hoping for a little more.

[Dwilah]

Content gap? What content gap? EU and species encyclopedias that I think both the Warcraft world AND the SW universe expand on species relations, politics, and species specifications to generic personality traits and physiology. SW is the same exact fandom format as the traditional fantasy fandom, with species encyclopedias, beastiaries, technology information, and longstanding background politics and published fanmaterial that's approved by the creators (aka Expanded Universe comics and books). Star Wars even has that magical, fantasy quality to it, good vs. evil, as Sepiv put it, and it's basically fantasy except in a sci-fi setting.

I really fail to see how there's a content gap in Star Wars where there's not in Warcraft, when you're dealing with "stuff to work with" for role-players.

I honestly believe that WoW is just going to be new, has new art, it's something that a different facet of gamers and fans have been waiting for, just like Galaxies was. MMOs are evolving and changing; it's inevitable that code or games will evolve to run smoother or better. But I severely doubt that one will end up being the other for content.

When I first discovered plans for Final Fantasy XI, which was the first mention I had ever heard of an MMO, I thought it sounded neat but I couldn't possibly fathom how in the world it would work. "How," said I to myself and my friends, "Can you play a game through with thousands of people doing the same thing?"

My same argument stands. It really just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I'm...not a gamer, and I don't know anything about code and stuff, so I could be proven wrong easily I suppose. But it's just like...I dunno. Static content I feel like is going to be the nature of an MMO, it's really about an RPing community and the ability of the Devs to add more content as the game continues.