Continuity...

[Jabe Adaks]

/rantmode on
This is just my opinion, so don't take it too seriously.

I keep seeing posts with people knocking Jedi almost every chance they get. Its annoying because almost everyone cites continuity in their argument against Jedi in the game. The other complaint is that they're played by mostly idiots.

So I ask the following:

Nobody complains about Teras Kasi who are also supposed to be rare and hunted by the Empire. A lot of the uber greifers play TKMs right? Why no TKM complaints?

What about the fact that everybody and their grandma is going to be able to fly the YT-1300 in JTL? This is the RARE ship that Han Solo captained. I don't see anyone complaining about the continuity there.

How about cloning centers? If we get rid of Jedi for continuity sake we should instate permadeath for all characters every time they die, then restart from scratch. I believe that would be historically accurate.

As far as idiots playing Jedi characters, it sucks. But in my experience, far worse people play other elite professions. The Jedi stick out because they are powerful, but they are supposed to be. Even if they made it harder and harder to become one, there are still power gamers who will do the grind and finish it. And no matter what there will be an inordinate number of Jedi in the game even if its just 1 person.

I propose that there should be a non-Jedi server in the game. That way anybody who hates it can transfer out. I just don't see the point in complaining about it though. If a person should be so upset about continuity than they should expect not to clone. If a person doesn't want a Jedi to kill them then don't get tef'd or go overt or fight at all. Even without Jedi there is going to be a bigger fish. So why complain about it?

Jabe

/rantmode off

[Seret Sajet]

All your points about TK and cloning centers and such are valid, I'll give you that. But lets hit them one at a time.

TK continuity is thrown out the window. Its a profession as easy to get as any other, people like it, and like jedi, plenty of idiots are TKMs. What can we do? Nothing. Lets just hope RPers get it right.

The YTs are also a market issue. People want to fly falcons, they're fans, so LucasArts has to give it to them. Thats just the way it goes.

Cloning Centers are way out there. For continuity's sake they make no sense, its supposed to be elite and forbidden technology. But lets face it, SOE will not have permadeath on their hands. Too much grief from players that they don't want. Lets not forget all the stories of kids committing suicide because their beloved Everyquest characters got permakilled. I think its a co-out for much deeper issues but the fact remains SOE doesn't want that kind of press. Its bad for business. "Lets just make the players happy" is their motto. Hey, so be it.

But Jedi? They are a sacred group in the SW universe. More stories are based on Jedi than anything else. Fans love 'em. Every SWG marketing advertisement, video and other such material has some footage of Jedi characters in it. Almost all SW video games have Jedi main characters. The point is we love them. We love lightsabers and force powers and that makes them sacred to us. Then we play a game were we're faced with idiots like Cappin Pancho roaming free using Jedi like bad action movie villians. Our beloved Jedi are pissed on now.

Now in a universe we love so much with characters we love so much we get griefed by crap like badly played Jedi. We want them to be cool again but they're not right now. They just burn us now and the fantasy takes a hard uppercut.

We don't have that kind of connection to cloning centers, TKs and the YTs so we just don't have as much grief for their lacks of continuity.

Thats why I think you see more Jedi complaints than any other.

[Jabe Adaks]

So it all comes down to the fact that idiots are playing Jedi and thats it?

Jabe

[Keer]

/rantmode on
This is just my opinion, so don't take it too seriously.

I keep seeing posts with people knocking Jedi almost every chance they get. Its annoying because almost everyone cites continuity in their argument against Jedi in the game. The other complaint is that they're played by mostly idiots.

So I ask the following:

Nobody complains about Teras Kasi who are also supposed to be rare and hunted by the Empire. A lot of the uber greifers play TKMs right? Why no TKM complaints?

There used to be complaints about TK. But still it was nothing like the Jedi situation. Add the fact that one Jedi who isn't even "Knight" ranked can outdamage about 3 TKM's with the best Composite and Buffs money can buy. Same mob in maybe less time. So if there's more static about Jedi than TKM's, it is in proportion.

Personally, I'd think that a Jedi would be able to be awesome like that. But when their relative numbers are so out of whack it's just overkill. I don't think that when they originally designed the game that they envisioned even 30 Jedi per server much less 10-12 in one guild.

What about the fact that everybody and their grandma is going to be able to fly the YT-1300 in JTL? This is the RARE ship that Han Solo captained. I don't see anyone complaining about the continuity there.

Actually there's no continuity problem with YT-1300's per se. According to lore that model is very common in this time. The base model that is. Remember that the Millenium Falcon had the "James Bond meets Orange County Choppers" treatment as far as modifications go. The Falcon is about as close to a base YT-1300 as a NASCAR "stock" car is to the local dealership's version.

I feel where you're coming from though. It remains to be seen whether everyone will be able to get a ship as slick and dirty as the Falcon. Hope not.

How about cloning centers? If we get rid of Jedi for continuity sake we should instate permadeath for all characters every time they die, then restart from scratch. I believe that would be historically accurate.

True, but not bashing, in all reality SOE painted themselves into a corner when they let loose the Holocrons and the "Grind-A-Knight" system. People were leaving SWG and that was their answer to hold 'em down. No SOE smear there. Straight facts.

As far as idiots playing Jedi characters, it sucks. But in my experience, far worse people play other elite professions. The Jedi stick out because they are powerful, but they are supposed to be. Even if they made it harder and harder to become one, there are still power gamers who will do the grind and finish it. And no matter what there will be an inordinate number of Jedi in the game even if its just 1 person..

Well, personally, I could see a number of say 50 Jedi per server making things a lot more reasonable. Not sure if you were serious about 1 Jedi, but I wouldn't see it being inordinate.

I propose that there should be a non-Jedi server in the game. That way anybody who hates it can transfer out.

Heh heh, while we're asking for dedicated servers, let's go for a "Roleplay Only" Server. That'd be my first choice, personally. While not everyone has the same idea of Role Play, I think that we'd all take that over what we have now.

I just don't see the point in complaining about it though. If a person should be so upset about continuity than they should expect not to clone. If a person doesn't want a Jedi to kill them then don't get tef'd or go overt or fight at all. Even without Jedi there is going to be a bigger fish. So why complain about it?

Jabe

/rantmode off

There is a boundary between rampant acidic negativity and healthy dissent. Just as there is a line between overly "rose colored glasses" and healthy optimism. The negative extreme alienates SOE and depresses players. The positive extreme encourages complacency in SOE and stifles innovative suggestions from the players who dream for more.

The hard part is getting the healthy dissenters and the healthy assenters together on the same track. All the while acknowledging that this is show business and "business" is always bigger than the "show" (unfortunately).

Good Luck To Us All

[Dwilah]

As an RPer, these are issues fairly easy to solve...

Cloning was a major component of how Dwilah got involved with Nocturnus. I think there was a point somewhere where I had put something like, "However frowned upon in today's age, it seemed so precious to have" meaning clone data. Like...for the most part when people clone in the cloning centers I sorta...overlook it. As like, oh, they got knocked out, they were hit really hard, they had to take a time out, they were sitting in the corner and that's why they weren't here for the past fifteen minutes.

The problem lies in the fact that we deal with game vs. universe as a setting. Do our characters use the game as their knowledge or universe as their knowledge base? I try to go with the SW universe more, so like...you don't just know people are the same faction as you because they're purple, there's not really such a thing as "overt" status in RP...

So Dwilah basically is an idiot when it comes to Jedi, YTs, and TKAs. It fits with her background, being a sheltered rich girl, but then she also spent the last 16 years of her life sheltering herself on Lok. She just plain doesn't really know much about this kinda stuff. If it comes up, though, she's going to say, "Oh my...aren't those very rare?" But that might be the extent of her knowledge.

The trouble lies in people's titles. Are TKAs really TKAs or just really awesome, you know, martial artists of one form or another? There's like, a bajillion forms of hand to hand combat on our planet, imagine how many kinds there'd be in a galaxy far, far away. It's so easy to pick up the title that's cool. It's fun to play a character that's got awesome skills and has a mystical or awesome background. It just gets tiring for everybody involved and we face problems as an RP community when everybody has them.

Dwilah's a master doctor, but because of the way she got trained, and stuff, I'd rather have the Field Surgeon title up. But in order to get any business ever, I need the Master Doctor title up most of the time. But it's important to me to differentiate between the two...a lot of doctors go to a university, blah blah...Dwilah studied on her own, and from doctors travelling through Lost City, etc etc...

I dunno if I'm just rambling or making any sense.

The key to me lies in what choices you make as an RPer, for your character and what they know. Continuity, you could argue, is breached simply because time travels faster in game than it does in the real world. Lok has an extremely fast rotation. If our characters stay on a standard day/night cycle they probably stay up for like, a full day and night before they sleep.

You just gotta work with you got. You gotta roll with it.

[Seret Sajet]

So it all comes down to the fact that idiots are playing Jedi and thats it?

Jabe

No, I don't think so. Everyone has a few reasons for their Jedi complaints. What it comes to is our perception of Jedi in the game. Do we hate seeing two Jedi duel in the middle of Theed? Do we hate having a Jedi hunt Imperials in an Imperial town? Do we just get sick of seeing so many so often?

In the end I agree with you. There is plenty to wonder about and Jedi's probably get more grief than some of them deserve. Personally I'm burned out on hating anything. I'm just having fun anyway I can.

[Dwilah]

Did I totally miss the point of this thread? I think maybe I did. Anyway, amen Seret. Fun=good. Hate=dark side.