Villains

[Viceroy Odantis]

Part of the problem is that sometimes people aren't going to listen, even to community leaders here. The best way is to go to their guild leader, not to jump to conclusions, and remember to stay calm with everything.

I would say everything is not so much hugs and kisses as it is casual and staying at a respectful distance. If someone is running an event, talk to them and ask them to do something about the abuse.

If there is something happening at a free, open event that is not modded in any way, which we have one (Scum and Villany Night), then I would say we as a community should probably suggest a way of dealing with these types of people.

a) Attempt a polite, OOC communication requesting what you'd like.
b) If OOC request is ignored, move on to other RP for the time being.
c) If harassment or griefing occurs and OOC communcation is ignored, contact their guild leader. If they are guildless, ignore them.

I think an important thing to remember here is that if you continue attempting to RP with people who refuse OOC communication, you're inviting their harassment and your RP could be viewed as harassment by them. This could quite possibly be a key point where communication has broken down and a simple difference of RPing styles has turned into anger, frustration, and bad reputations on all sides.

ORRRRRRRRRRRRR

The community, as in more than the people currently being harrassed, could stick up and go "you know what, if you are going to act like this, we don't want you here"

since S&V doesn't have a "leader" or "owner" the community needs to do this. When the polite conversations are tried, which in all our cases they WERE. Via tells and ooc....then its up to the community make them NOT FEEL WANTED. If they feel like "well i can just act like an idiot, and so what if one group is pissed at me, i'll just go rp with this guy over here" but if i oversee someone being a dick via rp, and they try to rp with me i would be willing to go (via a tell) "Please rp somewhere else or with someone else, your actions are distasteful and I will be ignoring you until you straighten up"

Stop being so open palm, a little closed fist is better at times.

[Jaminos]

Part of the problem is that sometimes people aren't going to listen, even to community leaders here. The best way is to go to their guild leader, not to jump to conclusions, and remember to stay calm with everything.

I would say everything is not so much hugs and kisses as it is casual and staying at a respectful distance. If someone is running an event, talk to them and ask them to do something about the abuse.

If there is something happening at a free, open event that is not modded in any way, which we have one (Scum and Villany Night), then I would say we as a community should probably suggest a way of dealing with these types of people.

a) Attempt a polite, OOC communication requesting what you'd like.
b) If OOC request is ignored, move on to other RP for the time being.
c) If harassment or griefing occurs and OOC communcation is ignored, contact their guild leader. If they are guildless, ignore them.

I think an important thing to remember here is that if you continue attempting to RP with people who refuse OOC communication, you're inviting their harassment and your RP could be viewed as harassment by them. This could quite possibly be a key point where communication has broken down and a simple difference of RPing styles has turned into anger, frustration, and bad reputations on all sides.

ORRRRRRRRRRRRR

The community, as in more than the people currently being harrassed, could stick up and go "you know what, if you are going to act like this, we don't want you here"

since S&V doesn't have a "leader" or "owner" the community needs to do this. When the polite conversations are tried, which in all our cases they WERE. Via tells and ooc....then its up to the community make them NOT FEEL WANTED. If they feel like "well i can just act like an idiot, and so what if one group is pissed at me, i'll just go rp with this guy over here" but if i oversee someone being a dick via rp, and they try to rp with me i would be willing to go (via a tell) "Please rp somewhere else or with someone else, your actions are distasteful and I will be ignoring you until you straighten up"

Stop being so open palm, a little closed fist is better at times.

The whole idea of telling someone that you do not rp the way I want you dose not roll over good with me. Not everyone is the same in rp and can be very different. What you may take as them being rash could have a very good reason why they are rash at the person.

When people tend to get on your nerves you can eaither A ignore them or B talk to them but do not tell them I dilike how you rp. I tend to let tons of things slide in rp just because it is not worth worrying about. If someone is being a jerk and walks up behind you and begins dancing You can tell them to stop or if they do not listen wright a harrassment ticket. but just because someone Rp's a way you do not like means that you should tell them to stop.

Just my two cents.

[Isleh]

As far as RPing around Imperials I have to agree with Alonzo and Zannon. I always called a trooper or officer in uniform sir. I play a covert rebel and you don't stay covert long acting like a belligerent drunk. If you play a criminal, why would you call attention to yourself?

Since I destroyed my cover at S&V, I'll probably stay at least combatant.

There is something I need to ask. Are we going to ignore the GCW as it is playing out on our server? If not, I have to ask how did a Imperial Inquisitor expect to arrest someone in a city controlled by the Alliance? [I have to add: Honestly I *would* like to see Mos Eisley controlled by the Empire.]

~~

As far as PvP RP? I had that same problem... I was typing out /duel and not everyone was accepting. I spent part of the time during the fight just walking around. Then in the end, I was outnumbered.

I was DBed then rezzed told to drop my weapon and the interrogation started. No one emoted ( or I missed it, if you did sorry ) doing anything to keep me from running so I ran like hell. Running and typing out /duel, then stopping and typing out /duel while the first one is firing at me ( I was not firing back because I dropped my weapon ).

We NEED something that allows groups to duel.

~~

Until then, when this happens again, form groups. What worked for the Replicant wars was:

Each leader of the group creates a list of members and sends it to the other group leader.
Once that list is sent out, that's it. Your side numbers are fixed. No more adding people.
Group leaders can then send out a email with the opponent list to their group members.
Each member creates a simple macro.

Macro duelall
/duel name1;
/duel name2;
/duel name3;
/duel name4;
...

everyone runs the macro with /macro duelall;

Don't clone until your group leader tells you to.

Also, has anyone tried the "Capture-the-flag" event prop? This may be a tool we could use for this kind of thing.

"OK! RP Timeout! Run to this waypoint and sign up for a side. Be back here in 10 min."

[DuoXDuoX]

Nice to see that this little villians thing i started has gotten so many responses and opinions tahts good stuff. And i wrote the thing after drinking a 5th of jack go figure :P

[Ekade]

I have been known to send people tells advising them on how to act in certain RP situations if I see them struggling.

What's more effective is leading by example.

Sometimes, no matter what you do, people are going to get up and slap imperials no matter how unreastic it may be. No amount of screaming at them will get them to change it. I am of the opinion that it is pointless to fight with that person. This is where I slap on the /addignore and move on with my RP. In the end, that is your only option.

There is no governing body in place who oversees RP for all of Gorath and enforces generally accepted rules.

The problem is, a couple times we have been called out at the various rp events...people who i would consider almost "officers" if you will, of the community formed here at swgtales and such...they stand idly by...if it was the other way around...i would be like "hey whoa, back off, this person knows how to rp, you are making an ass of yourself, you are ruining realistic rp for the area, so its you that needs to watch the tone" or if the scene allowed it even a much more polite "hey, look, what they are doing is just a very realistic, and therefore good rp, way of acting as imperials....as a rebel in this time period you're supposed to fear them, hide from them...but if you do stand up...you should accept a duel or something because it kills the realism to watch one lone rebel slap a squad of stormtroopers around" i mean even the NPC stormtroopers incap your ass for being that kind of a tard now...oh what i'd give for that power lol.

The mission of SWGTales, as I understand it, is to generate and facilitate RP. Not regulate it.

Many RP groups have rules and common conventions they follow. This is not a bad thing. We just have never implemented it here.

I derive more enjoyment from roleplaying than I do from policing RP. As such, this is how I choose to spend my free time. Would I support a RP ruleset that makes sense? Absolutely.

It just seems everyone takes a "hugs and kisses" approach to every conflict rather than being willing to go "you know what, you're chewing someone out when you are the one in the wrong, you need to be more open about how to rp, scripted storylines and trash talking are only one aspect (each)

In my experience, the "bad" roleplayers tend to filter themselves out. I'd almost call it natural selection. Over time, no one wants to roleplay with them, they get bored, and leave.

Either that or they learn and get better. Of course, if you tell a person to take a hike, you may never get the chance to see them get better. You've burned a bridge.

[Ekade]

As far as PvP RP? I had that same problem... I was typing out /duel and not everyone was accepting. I spent part of the time during the fight just walking around. Then in the end, I was outnumbered.

I was DBed then rezzed told to drop my weapon and the interrogation started. No one emoted ( or I missed it, if you did sorry ) doing anything to keep me from running so I ran like hell. Running and typing out /duel, then stopping and typing out /duel while the first one is firing at me ( I was not firing back because I dropped my weapon ).

To date.. every group duel scenario I have seen being attempted has been extremely chaotic.

The one exception was the Replicant War.. and that one was carefully set up and we took the time to make sure everyone was properly duelled.

If someone wants to implement an impromptu mass-duel at an RP event, they need to take the time to set it up and make sure all participants are on the same page. If you just wing-it, you end up with a half-ass clusterf--- of an encounter.

Once people get used to doing this, the set-up won't take nearly as long. Hopefully we can move towards the realism people are looking for.

[Novall]

This is one of those good arguments for a community guild war. Using /duel is the broken way around things.

[Zannon]

The problem is, a couple times we have been called out at the various rp events...people who i would consider almost "officers" if you will, of the community formed here at swgtales and such...they stand idly by...if it was the other way around...i would be like "hey whoa, back off, this person knows how to rp, you are making an ass of yourself, you are ruining realistic rp for the area, so its you that needs to watch the tone" or if the scene allowed it even a much more polite "hey, look, what they are doing is just a very realistic, and therefore good rp, way of acting as imperials....as a rebel in this time period you're supposed to fear them, hide from them...but if you do stand up...you should accept a duel or something because it kills the realism to watch one lone rebel slap a squad of stormtroopers around" i mean even the NPC stormtroopers incap your ass for being that kind of a tard now...oh what i'd give for that power lol.

The mission of SWGTales, as I understand it, is to generate and facilitate RP. Not regulate it.

Ekade is 100% right here, When we set up this site and message board, we always intended it to be a resource for other RPers and it's grown well beyond what we had ever envisioned (community-wise). All of the "owners" of this site have real full time jobs and really don't have to time to police people in game as to how to roleplay. To be honest, yeah, there are a lot of times that we'd like to and I know I have sent people /tell saying "What the hell are you doing?" quite often, but to try to do it all the time would make us more of a bad guy than Palpatine in a lot of people's eyes. I'd love to see us all RP under the same guidelines, but I just don't see it happening unless a good deal of the community leaders sat down and decided to focus on what those guidelines are and to take the time to actively enforce them.

[Zannon]

This is one of those good arguments for a community guild war. Using /duel is the broken way around things.

A community guild war would be a good idea if we could get everyone on the same page in regards to how to act. Attacks should only take place if there is a reason for them. In my experience, RP guild wars only end in a lot of people getting pissed off at eachother. When we did it in Nocturnus for a while, we had people picking off crafters as they were checking harvesters, people getting bullied and incapped on site, and a whole host of other greifing because we found out there several people on both sides weren't mature enough to not attack without reason.

[Sai'nu]

Suggested rule for this...

Factional fights... you gather the two 'teams' and a base for each side near by... everyone goes overt... you have your 'staged' fight then.

If Neutrals are involved... use Guild War option.

Only two effective options I see here. But; this only covers the means of battling.

Villans? Yes, we need villans. How should we incorporate Villans in our community seems to be the issue here. And can we really see our characters playing out... ok, for this arc, Batak is a bad guy; to turn around and have me hunky dory good guy the next? It just doesn't fit RP. But, that's speaking in an absolute. We all have a tendancy to have a free flow ebb with our characters in game. Why? Because we all want to stay civil here if we can help it.

[Zannon]

Villans? Yes, we need villans. How should we incorporate Villans in our community seems to be the issue here.

Actually, Nocturnus does have a full-time bad guy that has been on hiatus since before Noct even had a shuttle, but he is slowly working his way back and most of you will be meeting him very soon (if you haven't already...he's already RP with a few of you).

The unfortunate fact is, villains always loose and no one wants to play a looser all the time. The fun of having a bad guy is defeating them. It'd be neat for some of the jedi here to use their alts to create bad guys to use in RP some of the time....maybe even make a guild for them to be in to organize being bad better. A group of people RPing Imperial commandos, a corrupt Rebel agent, a group of Rebel Commandos, a particularly nasty bounty hunter, or even some sort of eco-terrorist would be cool to be able to call on for RP from time to time.

[Novall]

The problem is, a couple times we have been called out at the various rp events...people who i would consider almost "officers" if you will, of the community formed here at swgtales and such...they stand idly by...if it was the other way around...i would be like "hey whoa, back off, this person knows how to rp, you are making an ass of yourself, you are ruining realistic rp for the area, so its you that needs to watch the tone" or if the scene allowed it even a much more polite "hey, look, what they are doing is just a very realistic, and therefore good rp, way of acting as imperials....as a rebel in this time period you're supposed to fear them, hide from them...but if you do stand up...you should accept a duel or something because it kills the realism to watch one lone rebel slap a squad of stormtroopers around" i mean even the NPC stormtroopers incap your ass for being that kind of a tard now...oh what i'd give for that power lol.

The mission of SWGTales, as I understand it, is to generate and facilitate RP. Not regulate it.

Ekade is 100% right here, When we set up this site and message board, we always intended it to be a resource for other RPers and it's grown well beyond what we had ever envisioned (community-wise). All of the "owners" of this site have real full time jobs and really don't have to time to police people in game as to how to roleplay. To be honest, yeah, there are a lot of times that we'd like to and I know I have sent people /tell saying "What the hell are you doing?" quite often, but to try to do it all the time would make us more of a bad guy than Palpatine in a lot of people's eyes. I'd love to see us all RP under the same guidelines, but I just don't see it happening unless a good deal of the community leaders sat down and decided to focus on what those guidelines are and to take the time to actively enforce them.

Thats been tried in other games and failed utterly. Everyone has their own aims and goals ingame, and nothing anyone can do is going to be able to change that to facilitate the "greater" RP. 3 years ago I had a huge meeting with 30 RP guilds on Sonoma shard on UO about centralizing RP, why it didnt work is because everyone wants to know whats in it for them and how their going to come out looking better then they did when they went into it. Enforcing RP as a whole leads to discontent in a community and eventually a break up. Now, if you come up with guidelines that govern small parts of how RP can be interpreted...then you can enforce that as long as all parties are happy with the guidelines.

My advice is to have some sort of RP round-table, be it on a forum or teamspeak or whatever. Let RP guild, and city/community leaders hash out some guidelines for some universal concepts like the community at war, how you may be treated in certain towns, and how guilds are going to act towards you historically ect ect.

[Novall]

This is one of those good arguments for a community guild war. Using /duel is the broken way around things.

A community guild war would be a good idea if we could get everyone on the same page in regards to how to act. Attacks should only take place if there is a reason for them. In my experience, RP guild wars only end in a lot of people getting pissed off at eachother. When we did it in Nocturnus for a while, we had people picking off crafters as they were checking harvesters, people getting bullied and incapped on site, and a whole host of other greifing because we found out there several people on both sides weren't mature enough to not attack without reason.

Thats where guild leaders have to step up and lead their people, otherwise stuff like that is going to happen on a constant basis and things fall into dissarray.

[Isleh]

The unfortunate fact is, villains always loose and no one wants to play a looser all the time.

Why does it have to be this way? I'd like to see a villain that actually breaks that stereotype.

[Viceroy Odantis]

No one is asking for you to slap on your hall monitor style RP police sash and stand in rp areas watching everyone...but obviously thigns like this TEND TO CAUSE SCENES. I'm saying on clear cut cases, yes, the community can have some backbone.

Imagine 1950's style gated community. Someone moves in and starts putting car parts in the front lawn, etc etc etc. Eventually the community goes "ok look, he's ruining our community, let's go talk to him"

I'm not saying burn bridges.


Look i think for veterans of 'tales, its no secret me and novall got into it big time at one point.

I was a mark (unwilling i might add in the sense i didn't use this site to put "Mark: Alonzo", but willing for any freeform rp) and novall was the BH.

We got into it bigtime due to some stuff about the "realism" of certain events. I mean, heatedly got into it.

Novall and I hang on teamspeak, chat as friends all the time.....now i'd say that's far from a burned bridge...but we did burn out the problems we were having, and then wow, now i don't have to go to rp events going "oh christ there's novall, jesus" and him the same. The "accept it" method doesn't work, i'm sorry. Yes some idiots fade out....these tend to not be the rpers anyway. But however there are tons of RPers..i mean take Novall for instance what if we hadn't gotten into it, i was content to just go "jesus there goes novall, i'll just sit over here and put him on ignore" THAT is burning a bridge, because we'd never be friends now....

Sometimes the Kid gloves do more damage than the steel gauntlets of truth! lol

All i'm saying is...there ARE longterm members of this community that as a whole even if maybe you personally don't get along with...they usually have respect of a good bit of people as a roleplayer. If these members stand idly by....the people "bad" rping will just continue to do so...and sure let's say you ignore them...what about a brand new member of the community, who gets THIS person as their first impression...byebye

I've seen too many good people quit RP because of stuff like this.

As some of you know...i consider myself a bit of a hybrid...now personally RP is my flavor first and foremost...but i just happen to also be a damn good player....so i can hold my own with the 1337 dewds....my battle cry now tends to be some form of "Haha you got pwned by an RPer, loser" because nothing seems to piss the idiots off more than knowing they got owned by the "weirdo rper"

Now, the reason i mention all this....Liam Lightsun..leader of DMG-I, one of these Uber Guilds....after duelling him on his jedi and basically earning his respect byt giving him one hell of a fight...we got on teamspeak...everyone was like "omg you're letting an RPer get on" and was prepared for geek factor 8 million. So after we chilled a bit and got to talking it inevitiably came up..."Why RP man, that shits weird"

I asked "what's weird about playing up my imperial side..i mean...why are you rebel"

"we're the good guys!" was the basic answer.

I went on to explain some things but guess what popped up within minutes

"Every RPer i've ever met was either cybering with some dancer, or tlaking about how he's the decendant of darth maul and is the emperor's secret top assassin"

That is the BAD rp i'm so afraid of letting survive. This is what I FIGHT. Now the cybering witha dancer part...most of you who know me know i'm a PG-13 RPer...but i'm 23 years old, so i'm cool with R-rated content...i just personally find the border of sexual rp and actual Cyber-sex to be very thin..too thin for my tastes....so ignore that part of the issue for now, i'm not calling that RP bad, that would just be something IMO should be private, but definitely not "bad rp" in this sense...

But whenever I see the "darth maul grandson" type bios and rp....i'm sorry, i DO begint o talk to this person and ask them if they consider themselves a serious RPer or if its a joke...if its serious...i begin to calmly and politely tell them in much more diplomatic ways "that's pretty f'n dumb"

Think of it this way, for everytime an RPer has generalized every pvper as a 12 year old kid with no life, who only gets joy out of griefing...one of them has called an RPer a 48 year old man, living in mom's basement, touching himself while cybering with men on his female twi'lek toon.

This is why they harrass rp events...they truly think the bulk of RPers are either a) sex perverts or b) just flat out creepy and weird

now you may think this is a bit of a side track...and in a way it kinda is...but the point is...by ignoring the examples we find ourselves of this....you help promote that image. Do you know the pvpers often berate and mock the extreme idiots much as we do? xXx is just as mocked by the pvpers as it is by us for being "fucktards"


Look, being afraid to hurt feelings to a good thing...but allowing someone to be silently mocked, hated, and avoided without even trying to fix the problem...well...that's a bit more cruel IMO.


I've found most the time..friends can be salvaged from these "problems" and for the mostpart..the ones who will take it badly and get all defensive and pissy..well...now they weren't gonna be cool regardless were they, so what'd ya lose.

Its a funny thing, but i've had more people tell me i've earned their respect...for the "harsh" thigns i do, even if it takes days after everyone cools down...than i've ever earned for going "oh its ok, leave him alone, he's special"