wired magazine reviews the NGE

[Shensen]

True but at least if they had released SWG2 as a new game, chances are most of the people that left would still be here playing and the 'next gen' of SWG players could have chosen to go to the new game. I think it's the choice removed that bent most people out of shape.

[Hashum]

really though, I mean honestly, somethng like this was bound to happen, I mean a new version. If the would have released SWG2 you would have lost even more starting over from a new game. I lost alot of good weapons when the CU hit. It sucked but I adjusted and moved on. Same as now. I lost alot with the NGE, but I am adjusting and moving on. The thing that I value most in this MMO is the friends I have made, its easy to replace my old stuff with new stuff. If you re feeling that attached to you belongings in the game then you need to consider what will happen when the game is not supported anymore, or a SWG2 does come around....

The friends are what are keeping me here. Believe if it wasn't for them I'd be gone. I'm just saying the way they've done this has made it hard for me to move on, I no longer have the resources to do so because I invested so completely in a system that was only 6 months old. The first lasted a year and a half.

I'm not saying I don't expect change sure I do, I expect to lose things from time to time. But not lose everything. And I'm not saying this to bash the NGE, I'm just saying I have good reason to hate, but I don't completely hate it, I don't hate SWG especially. I've moved on I am doing what I can now, but I'm not satisfied with the way everything is now.

So I'm just saying many of us have good reason to be upset, so just because we're not cheerleading the changes, at least we're sticking it out, so if we poke a few jab's along the way we probably have good reason. But it wasn't enough to make us leave.

[Jabe Adaks]

I think what kills everyone here is that no one expected such sweeping change in just under 6 months of having the CU. People adjusted and honestly the post-CU crowd had just gotten its momentum back. We had won back some WoW players like Ekade and were having guild wars and other fun stuff. Damn, was I excited about this game 6 weeks ago.

I have never seen something like this happen. Everything started to die the moment Toront dropped the first NGE post "Here we go again...". And now here we are bickering amongst ourselves, or I should say whats left of us. The only point I tried to make was that some replies were just awfully untimely. In another context they may not have been seen as hurtful. But there's a lot of happiness amongst devastation right now and that is not a good mixture.

Maybe I am not so good at articulating this idea in to words or even suggesting a resolution. People feel I have attacked them. I will accept the judgement of this community, what other choice do I have? But I will say one last time, I am... in the best way I know, trying to look after the best interest of the community that is left here. I tried to shed light on it, I tried to state how I felt about it and it just made things worse.

My investment in to the game has not been realized until much of it was lost. Right now I am thankful there is a game to play and that my toon is still there. I'd just like people to be somewhat considerate when replying. Why do I ask this? Because everyone has met in the middle on every feature that got balanced or evened out. What you happily gained half of, someone else sadly lost half of before you both met in the middle.

Jabe

[Sai'nu]

I've slept on it... rewatched a movie and considered how can I possibly cover this from all angles yet again? Here's the closest thing I've got to say with a qoute first:

Yoda, "You must learn to let go of that which you fear to lose the most."

Ok, it's a game, we've all got different levels of feeling about it as well. Some of us look at that time investment and it means far more to some than others. Not a slam on anyone either; it's the truth.

So, why do we get into these arguments of Player vs. Player here? I can't believe any of us intentionally want to upset anyone; but we do.

Hell, I'll admit to being the biggest NGE cheerleader here right now and it is because I have to hope the game can get turned around and I can at least understand what their trying to do with the game even if, and I've said it many different ways, how they went about it was completely wrong. Yes, completely wrong. We should've been given more time and warning; but I do believe this change was comming at any rate.

Back to this though. While trying to keep up with the changes and keep a certain motivation level going we're expending probably the same ammount of emotion into this as those mourning the loss of the old game and time lost and friends lost. We're all going through the same things but in different ways. I think we can only hear about how much it sucks now before some of us just snap and go, "Ok, so why the hell should I bother trying to help around here anymore?" The flip side is that I know those with identy loss because of this or got bent on in game time over the past 3 years are going, "What the hell is my purpose now and where do I fit in!?!"

I deffinately appologize if I come off as uncaring of this entire situation but from my perspective I'm left with two options as far as the game is concerned. I either stick with it to see what happens or I try to find something else to give me that same feeling this used to have until, with luck, the game becomes something I'm familiar with again.

The comparisons in this case I think are meant more as... if we learned it once we can do it again. It honestly is an Alpha game to me at this point. But I'm going to stick with it and I'm going to keep pumping as much possitive reinforcement as I can; the community needs it. I need it myself. We're suppose to be having fun around here... not dwelling in stagnation.

I'll just end this now since I'm starting to lose focus. What I will say is if any of my cheerleading keeps anyone here in game just one day longer then I feel it was 100% worth it. I hope I can see a day when everyone that left will get back on and play as well... but that, I think, will fall nothing short of a miracle to happen now.

[DuoXDuoX]

For the short version. If theyd made it swg 2 we'd still have swg 1 to play and all would be well.

[DuoXDuoX]

I'll just end this now since I'm starting to lose focus. What I will say is if any of my cheerleading keeps anyone here in game just one day longer then I feel it was 100% worth it. I hope I can see a day when everyone that left will get back on and play as well... but that, I think, will fall nothing short of a miracle to happen now.

Yeah alot of people i know have such distrust for soe they wouldnt even come back with a roll back :/ . But of course soe will let the game die before admiting to being wrong so a roll back will never happen at this rate.

[Sai'nu]

/chuckles

Do you know how much cross-game time it took to try and get Ekade and Weyune over here?

It is hard to articulate other time investments made just to get others back to try out the CU. That time to me is lost now but was worth it because I got at least one of them to come back to at least get something new out of the game one more time.

Skor, I've still got those Green Day songs stuck in my head now as well. I guess I'll just throw in that I'm mourning lost RP chances with that one. Toront, your among a handful of players that even kept me here when I was ready to quit CU period. I ran into another last night, Corprolite. I could go on... but I think I want to try and be that person for someone else now. That might be where some of this motivation comes from.

/tips hat

I'll say thank you for keeping me here and leave it at that. Because everyone here has done that to some extent. Even the people I didn't get along with.

[toront]

And as everyone is so willing to point out, it's not the same game. There is a reason why it's called the New Game Experience.

I could go into detail. I could go into extensive detail and explain valid point after valid point if that was the goal of my argument. My point, like other have already pointed out, is to illustrate that I could. I don't actually plan on wasting the time doing so.

In fact I could make the same argument you just made about SWG chat concerning my WoW talents and the time I spent picking the ones that had fit my playstyle.

You miss the delicate fact that it is still the SAME game by name, subscription and all other important aspects. When the CU hit Test Center, it had modless as the default, but it still allowed for the classic controls.

Also, there is no reason that a non-modless option could be offered. In fact, if I read the boards correctly, it was an option for 2-3 days after the NGE until it was removed in one of the hotfixes. It doesn't affect the gameplay for those that don't used WASD to move.

Aside from the controls, my point is that it is not a new game, they are still calling it Star Wars Galaxies last I heard. Comparing your new experience in another game to sweeping changes within the same game does not hold any merit. I could understand combat changes, for we had those already. However, it was within the same realm, and they made the effort to cater to existing customers when they did it. Regardless, the NGE is here to stay, for however long that may be, so it does not matter. I just dislike the generalizations of those of us with our gripes and when a bad argument hit me in the face, I needed to jump in.

FYI It's New Gaming Enhancements, which I consider to be pretty different than New Game.

So, call it SWG2, clear out the database and let the old playerbase keep absolutely nothing?

If it looks and plays like a new game, it must be a new game. If you want to quibble over the point that SOE didn't call it SWG2, that fine.

If it is a new game as you say, then it should have been released as a completely new game, so yes, clear out the databases and start from scratch. If they kept the CU version in some capacity and started a new game, I would have no complaints.

You are obviously going to keep seeing it your way, and I will see it mine. I still say your comparison to WoW makes no sense in the context of the argument. Even if the game is the same in name only (which essentially it is), it has been pushed on the players with minimal respect or concern for helping maintain some semblance of the game they knew. If it had the option to keep the controls similar to classic SWG, I probably would have given it more of a try.

It is this lack of respect for the existing playerbase that drove me away. We'd been saying that the game needed a better GCW end-game to sustain itself for months. They preach it now to try and polish up the NGE, but they could have done it for the CU.

All the quests they have for new levels or making the RotW and ToOW quests give xp, that could have been done in the old system. Where the pre-CU was fundamentally flawed in its design (no realistic crafting caps, speed capping everything, etc), the CU was a great base to build on.

Anyway, I'm done arguing one point or another. I honestly have moved on, I just have difficulty not hopping into a good debate.

[Isleh]

Your welcome to correct me if I'm wrong Isy...

I think it might be a form of brown beating. Since we (I'll just put myself with Isy) feel we're trying to support the new system and may have came across as the cheerleaders not considerate of others... it's given that, "what's the point feeling?" of disilluisionment one gets....

Well, like when someone invests 2 years in something to have it completely torn apart and handed to you in a doggie bag to go.

I guess the feeling could be said to be the same when your trying to make good on that doggie bag but get beat on with the rubber bat for doing so.

Extreme examples; but I think that might sum it up best.

I'm looking forward to this Event though. Vreese or Batty one will be there.

That's exactlty it.

Most people here talk about their game being devalued because their in-game experience has changed.

Well, I feel my game is being devalued because because of my out-of-game experience and it spilling into my in-game experience as well.

If it is a new game as you say, then it should have been released as a completely new game, so yes, clear out the databases and start from scratch. If they kept the CU version in some capacity and started a new game, I would have no complaints.

You are obviously going to keep seeing it your way, and I will see it mine. I still say your comparison to WoW makes no sense in the context of the argument. Even if the game is the same in name only (which essentially it is), it has been pushed on the players with minimal respect or concern for helping maintain some semblance of the game they knew. If it had the option to keep the controls similar to classic SWG, I probably would have given it more of a try.

It is this lack of respect for the existing playerbase that drove me away. We'd been saying that the game needed a better GCW end-game to sustain itself for months. They preach it now to try and polish up the NGE, but they could have done it for the CU.

All the quests they have for new levels or making the RotW and ToOW quests give xp, that could have been done in the old system. Where the pre-CU was fundamentally flawed in its design (no realistic crafting caps, speed capping everything, etc), the CU was a great base to build on.

Anyway, I'm done arguing one point or another. I honestly have moved on, I just have difficulty not hopping into a good debate.

Regarding CU Servers:

This is speculation but plausable.

SOE Has kept EQ and moved on with EQ2. I'm sure SOE seriously considered it. Lucasarts may have stepped in and said, "You have a license for one (1) MMORPG for the Star Wars Franchise. You have the option of: A, getting another license or B, remake your current game and use your current license.". I'm sure this was an issue since essentially SOE would have 2 games under a single license if they did what you wanted.

So, you are an SOE Exec. The game SWG is not meeting expectations after 2 years. You competition is beating you down (without the expense of a Star Wars franchise license). You have the option of spending millions on a new license from Lucasarts for a new game, You can push out a new game under the original license and try to keep the original playerbase, or you can shut down the servers and start fresh telling your current subscribers to go F themselves.

Regarding the CU:

Most everyone agrees that the number of professions was a biggest road block to the addition of new content. This is what keeps people in the game. Not the combat system. What would happen to the CU combat system if the number of professions were reduced?

The CU depended on the diversity of the professions* and the templates people created as much as the tactics and the food and the weapon choices yet that diversity was also the biggest roadblock to adding the stuff that kept people in the game.

As far as my trouble with the UI in WoW?

"None of it is accurate once a little effort is made to understand the game and the same holds true for SWG yet post after post this is exactly what I had to read." - Isleh

*At least it should have by design if the continued to tweak the professions and the myriad of possible combinations, All 39,000+ of them, they may have done it.

[Dew]

"None of it is accurate once a little effort is made to understand the game and the same holds true for SWG yet post after post this is exactly what I had to read." - Isleh

Well said...

[DuoXDuoX]

Good theories but the contract stuff your talking about is just that , a theory. I seriously doubt theres a clause about using old code. Considering most mmo's offer classic servers after drastic changes such as eq. (eq had classic servers for many different stages). They just know that if they offered cu servers no one would play the nge minus a select few. Therefore they cut us off to make sure ppl play in this system. Maybe one day they will offer servers after enough ppl are committed to the new system who knows. Or maybe on the other hand the nge will be fun when they get it out of an alpha stage which is the most unfair part of the whole change. Should have at least had the functioning weapons and attacks and such. End of the day we asked for the Combat Upgrade and they gave it to us. NGE was forced upon us out of no where so of course ppl will be bitter. I do plan to give the game a try one day when its functioning but its ridiculous to allow a company to continuosly make you relearn broken combat systems over and over saying itll be fixed one day.

[Ka'eri]

This is quite an interesting topic, and it's good to read everyones opinon.

As for me, I agree with Isleh's point of a new game a little bit. SWG is more of a new game, but with no way of playing the old and keeping your character and majority of the items.

I do miss the pre-nge badly, and I still don't care too much about the NGE itself. Even so I've been trying to have fun, and I have been having fun with it. I think there is some potential in the NGE, but waiting for that is kind of depressing since we've waiting in a sense with the CU and Pre-CU. But I try and stay optomistic about things.

I still have lots of things to do in game still and I'm looking forward to those things and I'm not letting the NGE hold me down.

I never was a MMO fan, but a Star Wars fan like many many others. I don't see myself playing anything else that is out or soon to come out. Although it's debatable how Star Warsy this game is, and of course thats horse has been beaten for along time. Never the less, it's the only MMO that is close to it

I guess what I'm trying to say is that: NGE SWG> No SWG

For me of course