S&V Discussion

[Jaminos]

Hmm, I like some of these Ideas, I like the scenario's one through three. I think that there should be different levels of scum at there. The higher kinds on the higher levels the lower on the lower levels. I will post more after I have thought more.

[Hashum]

Scenario 1:
- A seedy scene, ridden with lowlife scum, spice addicts, starving and desperate criminals who would kill you for a scrap of food.

Scenario 2:
- Middle class. Freighter pilots and people with jobs might go here to have a drink. The crimals here are those who do the legwork, the smugglers. Here's where contacts are made, where you may find a gangster trying to recruit you.

Scenario 3:
- A very upscale criminal element, where politicians and government officials might go to mingle.. and get "business" done. This is where the big hitters of the outer rim might go to set the wheels in motion for master plans. The come here to flaunt their status and try to influence their peers.


When you think of Scum and Villainy.. what scenario comes to mind for you?

As one of the starting contributors to Scum & Villainy Night, I'd like to offer some input. I haven't attended one in months... but based on the questions and comments I've seen here it looks like core ideas are in debate more than detail. In general, these insights will try to reconcile the ideal with the practical.

Novall's take on what S&V should be is exactly what we'd imagined it be way back. Bascially, Jabba's Palace...just a little bit more to the east. And of course no Hutt. But, dammit if you wouldn't know what would happen next. It was a wild card.

If I remember correctly, Jabba's Palace was on the short list of main "homes" for S&V but we decided to ditch it because non-Jabba Theme Park badgers would be gated out of it. The Mos Eisely Cantina (aka Chalmun's) too, but it was too small. Lucky Despot was the right spot for size and flavor, but I digress.

The scenarios listed by Ekade fit well for main choices, and personally I think S&V fits into Scenario #1. Seedy, grimy, gritty. Basically, earning the namesake from the town and Obi-Wan's line in the movie, "...wretched hive of Scum & Villainy".

In my view, we have other spots that fit the Scenarios #2 & #3. Being privileged to be around for the early days of The Crazy Roba on Talus, I saw that as being between Scenario 2 and 3. Over time, though it seemed to become more Scummy & Villainous than S&V. I'm not shooting at it or anyone, but I think many of us would agree.

Club Midnight I saw as definitely Scenario #3. The "jewel in the desert" like Vegas, or at least how Vegas used to be before it became family friendly. Glitz, Glamour, Gambling. All run by your local "Neighbor Hoods" just down the road.

As far the practical side, I realize that tight definitions don't always flow with RP. It becomes it's own creature sometimes. And even ideally, there should be a small dosage of all of the flavors in the different spots at time.

Time is the other practical consideration. Sunday night is the only time for most people to do their RP thang. They might want to let loose and not be confined to this or that theme.

I've no hard and fast solution, just offering perspectives. Food for thought for whatever solution comes up.

I 100% agree with Keer's take on this one.

[warsloth]

well watch ANH and think about what might be going down in ME on any given night. Different cantina, but folks like Han Solo, or anyone who's having some space downtime... think of it like a smugglers truck stop, shall we say smokey and the bandit gone starside? WTH am I doing...

[Ekade]

well watch ANH and think about what might be going down in ME on any given night. Different cantina, but folks like Han Solo, or anyone who's having some space downtime... think of it like a smugglers truck stop, shall we say smokey and the bandit gone starside? WTH am I doing...

I am trying to figure out if I have a place at the event. In Scenario #1, I don't. #2 - maybe sometimes. #3 yes.

I would say that Mos Eisley cantina scene is like #2. They do have enough civility to have live entertainment.

It sounds like people want #1.. and Ekade would not go to that. I will miss S&V night.. I founded it, with help, and have kept it going long after the other founders abandoned it. A lot of good RP and fun came from it, regardless of the theme of the evening.

[Dwilah]

Why do we need definitions? Why do we need to segregate and make rules? Other people who have came and left the community, we got mad at them for trying to make rules and defining what real role play is. That's no way to RP and it's not going to do anything but what it's already done--get people caught up in what is right and wrong and there's nothing to work with there.

Let's stop trying to figure out how to "run" S&V. Let's just GO and RP it. That's where the atmosphere is going to come from. All the planning in the world will not make the atmosphere.

[Novall]

Personally, I'd go more for #2. Its not a drug house, and Novall has a little more class then to associate with that crowd unles its for info or something.

I think Dwilah has the best idea so far out of all our ideas.

I'm really starting to regret that anything was brought up about S&V at all as its turned into more of a poo poo thread then anything else.

I'm really sorry to have even brought it up at all.

[Chalithra]

Its not really in my nature to vent openly on the boards, but tonight I'm irritated and this thread is ticking me off more and more - so I'll appologize in advance for my own little rant.

Role play is going to be what you make of it, one way or another. The way *you* see it may not be the way others do. There is no "right way" or "wrong way" to run any event, though certain things may nudge a story in the intended direction. These events were never ment to be directed toward any ONE person or group of people, and I don't care who you are...or THINK you are, NO ONE has any direct say in HOW an event *should* be portrayed aside from the person who runs it - and even that is limited.

Everyone plays their character differently, and I do not believe anyone has the right to exclude anyone else. The more I attend RP events the more I'm seeing the formation of little "Elite" groups and social circles. Quite honestly, such things moved me to almost quit two months ago, and comming back to the game I don't see much improvement - the problem is becomming more evident and its pushing away potiental new players and veterans.

Now, aside from that rather blunt statement... I'll toss in my opinion on the subject, and no one has to agree. I have come to understand that S&V night was INTENDED (note I said -intended-) to be geared toward the shadier characters. Unfortunately, the event never had enough "shady" activity to really support that atmosphere. I had always viewed the event, since it took place in Mos Eisely, as a good way to get new players interested in the Gorath RP community (much of the reason I spend so much time in Mos Eisely, myself). I think this had a very positive impact while it lasted. Unfortunately, that feel is gone, and I think..if anything, it should be a goal to get that back...

[Ekade]

Everyone plays their character differently, and I do not believe anyone has the right to exclude anyone else. The more I attend RP events the more I'm seeing the formation of little "Elite" groups and social circles. Quite honestly, such things moved me to almost quit two months ago, and comming back to the game I don't see much improvement - the problem is becomming more evident and its pushing away potiental new players and veterans.

One thing that need to stop is this.

What I mean is taking an indirect shot at someone, or a group of people. If you have a legitimate complaint, then address it with the parties involved.

Do not take take shots into the crowd.

If you have an issue, address it directly. Comments like that are only going to upset people all over again.

One thing I am proud of is this community's lack of elitism. We welcome all and roleplay with everyone who is willing.

[Jerrel]

Ok this is geting a little anoying guys. I'm gona just repost my setiment and potential solution to every ones problem right here.

To be honest we should have seen it comming along time ago. I mean think about it. For the most part we all play good guy characters, though I think after the slave event Jerrel maybe on a few people list (aucually I'm hoping for it). We are a pretty tight knit group here. I'd like to think we consider ourselves friends here, as far as internet freindships go, and we tend to slide into that familiarity and corgolness to easily. Unfortunatly we cannot change that dynamic, nor should we. We should try to pull players who will play the bad guy as often as we can. We need more gritty players there is all, and that is really no one's fault. In my attempts to stregthen Mos Eisley as a RP Zone I've been sending roleplayers random mails about ME and when they choose to talk to me via tells or mail I always drop the S&V nights info to them hoping that they'll come looking to start a good bar brawl. Apparently it hasn't happend yet but hey no sweat.

Esentially guys we should not attempt to force it one way or another. If we try to add more people who (hopfully) will provide the S&V for us great if not its no real biggy. Ok so S&V doesn't feel very scummy and not at all villinous...so. The big part is that those who show up are roleplaying in a place were new and old players can see. Maybee it doesn't fit the intended feel of the event but the primary purpous of holding this event in ME was to expose other players to our RP community and I think S&V has excelled at that and we should stop the nit-picking

[IagoBoom]

Why do we need definitions? Why do we need to segregate and make rules? Other people who have came and left the community, we got mad at them for trying to make rules and defining what real role play is. That's no way to RP and it's not going to do anything but what it's already done--get people caught up in what is right and wrong and there's nothing to work with there.

Let's stop trying to figure out how to "run" S&V. Let's just GO and RP it. That's where the atmosphere is going to come from. All the planning in the world will not make the atmosphere.

There is no "right way" or "wrong way" to run any event, though certain things may nudge a story in the intended direction.

Ok, I withdraw all of my suggestions. I was taking on the devil's advocate position. I'm just gonna show up, and see how everything goes. I'm bowing out of this discussion, with the others. See you guys at S&V... (and the LL for an after-party, if Ehili doesn't throw me out ;) )

[Tovaar]

I have to agree with Dwilah that we do not need to segregate and to make rules for rp. There has been alot of really postive ideas that have come from this thread, and if implimented should make s&v night alot more enjoyable and at the same time give it back its scumminess. Having a card game going, and other shady things will get everyone playing off eachother. We have all agreed that we feed off of each other, and its been stated a million times.
As for there being elite groups, im not so sure. In any type of social setting there are going to be people that bond with one another. We do tend to socialize with those we know, but that only makes sense. I have not come across any group of rpers so far that wouldnt interact with tov if I made some sort of attempt to rp with them. So I am not so sure about the eliteness, but I will admit that there are definatly social circles, each guild is a testement to that.

[Chalithra]

It wasn't a direct or indirect shot at anyone. If it were, it would have been taken to PMs. What I said was a general statement, not something to offend anyone [ since its something, at some point, we're all guilty of in one way or another], and if it offended you, I'm sorry...but its still my opinion. *sigh* -.-

[Ekade]

I stumbled in here to see what everyone was talking about and feel like we need to ask a serious question about S&V night.

As one of the GMs that came up with the idea of S&V night, it was always our intention to use it as a way to make the rest of the server aware of the RP potential of the game and to give Mos Eisley more of a feeling of being alive. I have been working with Hashum, Dwilah, and a few others on a lot of things that will do this, but they all revolve around Mos Eisley and S&V night. Eventually we'd like to see ME become a constant RP hub where you could just stop by any time and RP your character. It's been a lot of work and it's finally to the point where we can start using the stuff we have set up around the city and elsewhere in SWG. My fear of having a roving S&V night that starts at the Despot and then moves to a player city is that it makes things I've got in motion inconvenient for everyone and it also doesn't allow us to pull from the normal crowd around ME, which is why we chose ME in the first place.

Anyway, I need some feedback on this so the rest of the GM people and I don't waste any time with something that is unwanted or not viable. It seems like S & V is really becoming more of a social hour focusing on relationships than the gathering to make the game feel more Star Warsy it was intended to be. I'm not knocking anyone's playstyle, I'm just trying to get an idea of where everyone wants their RP to go. The Casino is just as guilty of the shift toward relationship RP, but I'm working on changing that in a similar fashion as S & V.

I too see the tie-in between S&V and the Mos Eisley RP effort. With that in mind I think it is better to keep S&V in Mos Eisley. Moving it from place to place would not be worth the trouble, nor do I think it would add any value to the RP that takes place at the event.

So, that is my feedback. Keep it in the same spot and try to enrich the event through RP and doing things. Location provides atmosphere, but not as much as the people and activities.


In regards to "Relationship RP" versus "Star Warsy RP", I don't make a distinction. It is RP to me. Some of the best scenes in Ep V. were the Han and Leia "relationship RP".

I understand where you are coming from. We who like relationship RP can do that some other time. I will try to focus myself a little differently in this regard. All I ask is for a little slack as I try to adjust.

If there is anything I can do to make these events more enjoyable, please let me know.. as a player or as a GM.

[Ekade]

We should try to pull players who will play the bad guy as often as we can. We need more gritty players there is all, and that is really no one's fault.

Villains are great for driving RP. I've always encouraged the support of villains. When Tramel used to show up...

.. a moment of silence for the Colonel..



... thank you...


... when Tramel used to show up I would always act nervous and respectful aroung his imperial-ness. I was attempting to enhance the atmosphere of the scene by reacting as someone who is oppressed, and fearful of the empire would act.

I've been tempted on numerous occasions to either buy another account and play a villain, or reinvent Ekade and make her a villain and run some sort of crime syndicate. When I played a villain in the Replicant War, I learned a lot. One of the things I learned was how to drive the bus and make things happen. Kirt was an outstanding help in that regard. My crazy alter ego would come up with something, and he would go do it. We screwed with a good number of people (hopefully to the enjoyment of all involved). You really get to move the chess pieces as a villain. Villains really just want to establish and exert control.

Villains are hard to play in that they cannot exist with the community on a day-to-day basis. You are not going to let the guy who tried to kill you and all your friends last week into your cantina this week.

What we have now are temporary villains for events, or "grey area" villains.. people who are not really classic bad guys, but do bad things on occasion. We also have villain entities the crop up from time to time, mysterious puppet masters that give us subtle hints about their presence.

The other challenge when it comes to villains is that the good guys are always quick to put the villains out of business, that is their job after all.

Lasty, people need to buy into the idea of a particular villain. If I invent a villain that wants to muscle in on the various "businesses" in Nocturnus, and none of the players who RP the running of those "businesses" buy into it.. that villain is an impotent entity.

I'm rambling... and probably a little off topic.

Yes, I agree, bad guys are what make for great stories. I would like to see perhaps a slower moving story arc than some of the events we have seen in the past. It's hard to explain, but I want to feel something happening in the background that we are all a part of. Some of us may be working for, or against this "thing" that sits in the background.. something to give a little more context to some of our RP.

[Sai'nu]

*ponders starting up one of his other 2 accounts to contribute to the Scum and Villian roles*

I think I'm going to make this my last post in this thread. And I'm going to leave you all with this last thing to think about:


RP is unpredictable and intentions don't always work out as planned. With that I'm just going to encourage that everyone keep comming and anything you want to change about it work out in character at the event. This isn't that hard of a thing to fix on personal levels for all of us. Just show up and play out your changes. (Novall, bring the rough up squad. Zannon and Seret, start that smuggling opporation. The rest of us, do what we do best, RP!)

I'm just going to plead that everyone take into account that we not take things too personally at the event should some of us play out the more villianous sides of our characters.