RP PvP/Duel Etiquette Draft

[Isleh]

This is a huge problem to tackle.

I know, the GCW is a huge problem actually. As role-players, we like a set stage.

What is "cannon"? The movies, or the game? One can't say both, because thay are mutually exclusive. According to the movies, there are no Jedi and the Rebels would never control Mos Eisley. According to the game, Jedi are more common than normal people and the Empire is being dominated by the Rebellion.

Should we even bother thinking about factional NPC city control? As a SW purist, I say no. I don't want my galaxy dictated to me by the actions of people who have never even seen the movies. Mos Eisley will always be a neutral city with minimal imperial presence. This keeps us from having to worry about the daily, and arbitraty fluctuations of NPC cities.

The problem of ignoring the environment we play in is that not everyone is going to agree. And from the number of posts that followed when I brought up the subject...

The thing about using the GCW is that every player can look and see who is controlling the city according to the GCW by what troops are walking around. It's indisputable.

The Lucky Despot is Lady Valarian's place.. and while inside, THAT is what we should be considering. Would she welcome a troupe of imperial thugs in her cantina? Would she just sit back and let them have their run of the place? Would imperial thugs, or any other sort of bully even be willing to risk their lives by entering such a place? I don't have the answer to that, but those are the sorts of realities we should be debating.

Actually, I would say that Lady Valerian has paid off both sides with favors and if a bunch of Imperial or Rebel thugs showed up and started disrupting her business, Lady Valerian would start making calls.

Is it realistic to say that anyone with a weapon can brazenly go anywhere in the galaxy and threaten anyone they want without fear of reprisal from the local authority? The way most people play suggest they think the answer is yes.

That was what I was fighting against Toront, Alonzo and Nyvveck about all along. Apparently, as long as the local law enforcement is level 30 or less. Anything goes. I just hope they decide to send their prisoners to the (not) so dreaded Imperial prison on Dathomir. I may have to use pixie to break them out.

Star Wars is very much like the wild west, but there is also a degree of civilization and law that must be considered. I guess what I am saying is that there is a time and place for "thuggery". You need to consider what will come storming into a particular venue if a fight breaks out.

"NPCs are meat shields"

Nope, not one bit.

Meh.

[Rebecca]

I read the first two pages of the thread... Good ideas thus far. Not alot of time to read 7 pages of forum opinions... BUT! I would like to say.

Rebecca talks smack, Rebecca talks smack all the time. Rebecca loses duels, frequently. Has this made my RP counter productive? No. I realize nobody is going to DB me. So... losing a duel really has no relation to anything. Except some mild embarassment to my character. Luckily, Rebeccas appearance, and mannerisms, basically coming off as a "get out of my face" sort of person. Has gotten Rebecca out of many situations. Not only that, but my eagerness to /duel when a situation calls for it, often makes people back down.

What am I getting at? All of these ideas everyon is thinking about can be implemented. Each and every one. Including emote fights (which I personally find get tiresome and unrealistic). Many of the people in this community, who are willing to back there characters tough attitude with a good old fashioned beat down, should be respected. At least, in the way you would respect anyone else who is tough.

Also... OOC conversation to get a good flow of whats to be expected in a brawl, or buffs or not, or whatever else. Brilliant.

I always just hop right in without food and get taken aback when my opponent catches me off guard by eating a steak and drinking a glass of wine before my sword falls.

[Isleh]

Okay, rethinking and revaluating my original intention of why I suggested treating level 18s like level 80s. This is something that should will fit in regarding all NPCs. GCW or not.

• Acknowledge the forthcomming reprisial for your actions when assaulting NPCs in RP regardless of how easily they can be overcome. Take into account that they will be evulating your abilities just as much as you are evulating theirs. If they start losing badly, they are going to try to call in much stronger reinforcements to repell you."

It was a mistake on my part to try to make a hard and fast rule rather than a guideline. I fell into the very same trap I was advising people to avoid. This is the second time I find myself appoligizing to Alonzo for basically the same incident that started this all. Toront & Nyvveck I apoligize to you as well.

[Sai'nu]

Etiquette, rules, system.

Person versus Person fighting... Role Playing. The more I evaluate this thread the more I can see a lot of different points of view that everyone wants to be the 'right' one. Thing is... we also have to be aware of the outside community as well.

We're all here to have fun; we want this to be an enjoyable experience for everyone. That much is clear. The thing we need to realize is that not everyone, in this community or out, have the same opinions on how any given situation should be handled.

I for one think we need to expand this thread into some other areas as well. Essentially what you create in a PvP system is also going to turn into Etiquette on 'how we should play' when taking into considering our Role Play emmersion as well.

*points outside of the Lucky Despot* There 'are' Rebels outside. This is 'not' cannon Star Wars. This is at least one of our problems. A CL 1 'should' be able to feel comfortable with smack talking all they want to an Imperial in enemy territory under those circumstances short of those Star Destroyers overhead blowing up Mos Eisley.

The other approach is one I take myself a lot... I try to play as if I 'were' in the time period of the movie and don't even think of my Jedi as Jedi... but as Untrained Force Wielders.

I guess my point here is... we need a bigger thread with a broader scope to narrow down to this.

[Hashum]

Etiquette, rules, system.

Person versus Person fighting... Role Playing. The more I evaluate this thread the more I can see a lot of different points of view that everyone wants to be the 'right' one. Thing is... we also have to be aware of the outside community as well.

We're all here to have fun; we want this to be an enjoyable experience for everyone. That much is clear. The thing we need to realize is that not everyone, in this community or out, have the same opinions on how any given situation should be handled.

I for one think we need to expand this thread into some other areas as well. Essentially what you create in a PvP system is also going to turn into Etiquette on 'how we should play' when taking into considering our Role Play emmersion as well.

*points outside of the Lucky Despot* There 'are' Rebels outside. This is 'not' cannon Star Wars. This is at least one of our problems. A CL 1 'should' be able to feel comfortable with smack talking all they want to an Imperial in enemy territory under those circumstances short of those Star Destroyers overhead blowing up Mos Eisley.

The other approach is one I take myself a lot... I try to play as if I 'were' in the time period of the movie and don't even think of my Jedi as Jedi... but as Untrained Force Wielders.

I guess my point here is... we need a bigger thread with a broader scope to narrow down to this.

I happen to disagree with that statement. Expanding the scope of this thread would further complicate things as well as create what some people feel are further "rules".

I think the best way to improve the immersion for the community in general and specifically this community is take the issues that are truely causing problems (such as this PvP situation) and address them specifically and try to find the best set of etiquette we can live with. No one is every going to completely agree with anything even a handful of people decide on.

The more you broden a scope the more conflict that it will cause because of varried opinions on that scope. If you focus on a small scope you're less likely to meet as much resistance and are more likely to make progress. And once you've addressed those issues broadening the scope maybe possible because you have a foundation to work from that the community is already happy with.

[Sai'nu]

Well, I'll try and clarify what I mean... it's hard for me to do that often when someone else can usually nail it for me.

Yes, I completely agree that brodening the scope of the thread 'does' make it more messy.

However we're ahead of ourselves when we're trying to say 'this is how our duels' are going to work when we've first got to see where everyone is at on our pages so to speak.

We've got some on 'This is Cannon' game to me. However, we have some going 'This is not Cannon' game to me. Which pretty much tells us that some are 'not' going to agree to said 'pvp rule' because *point* those gaurds you didn't kill outside would've warned all of us in here 'before' you got here or we would've heard said battle outside and left or grabbed our blasters to fight.

I don't mean to make this any more murky than it is... but we need to get to a different 'root' before we can branch out and narrow down to this.

Hence, the 'Cannon' thread. I linked it to this because they 'are' related.

Some tips for RP and PvP:
1) Look at your... Location, location, location!
2) Believeability! (this can get mucky depending on a person's RP style/type of game their playing. Said player may be in New Republic Era in their heads and see an Imp as being 'the' rebel.)
3) I think the golden rule is to treat others as you would be treated. If someone wants to ignore me and walk away... fine... that's their decission. I'm not going to chew them out for it. I'd hope that same player would do the same for me.


I hope this kind of clarifies where I'm comming from. Absolutes are not very healthy in RP nor PvP. That becomes very... very.... not fun.

[Hashum]

Well, I'll try and clarify what I mean... it's hard for me to do that often when someone else can usually nail it for me.

Yes, I completely agree that brodening the scope of the thread 'does' make it more messy.

However we're ahead of ourselves when we're trying to say 'this is how our duels' are going to work when we've first got to see where everyone is at on our pages so to speak.

We've got some on 'This is Cannon' game to me. However, we have some going 'This is not Cannon' game to me. Which pretty much tells us that some are 'not' going to agree to said 'pvp rule' because *point* those gaurds you didn't kill outside would've warned all of us in here 'before' you got here or we would've heard said battle outside and left or grabbed our blasters to fight.

I don't mean to make this any more murky than it is... but we need to get to a different 'root' before we can branch out and narrow down to this.

Hence, the 'Cannon' thread. I linked it to this because they 'are' related.

Some tips for RP and PvP:
1) Look at your... Location, location, location!
2) Believeability! (this can get mucky depending on a person's RP style/type of game their playing. Said player may be in New Republic Era in their heads and see an Imp as being 'the' rebel.)
3) I think the golden rule is to treat others as you would be treated. If someone wants to ignore me and walk away... fine... that's their decission. I'm not going to chew them out for it. I'd hope that same player would do the same for me.


I hope this kind of clarifies where I'm comming from. Absolutes are not very healthy in RP nor PvP. That becomes very... very.... not fun.

See we're making this much too complicated. Once you bring "Cannon" into the discussion things just get ugly. I don't see any way that we can make a decision on those types of arguments. There's no way we can say this is or isn't cannon. And I don't think that's what TTF is trying to do here.

All we want from this thread in my opinion (having read every single post) is just some general manners in regards to PvP at RP events. The last few pages of this thread I think have even become too complicated trying to nail down too much in relationship to the GCW. I think we just need to focus more on the fact that these are just good manners. They're not "Rules".

By that I mean no one is forcing anyway to follow these suggestions. They're simply out there in my opinion to help increase awareness in the community of what many people would consider a good way to handle yourself in a particular situation with all other factors being of no concern. No of course people will take into account certain outside factors that are beyond anyone's control. However as Alonzo or Toront mention the primary driver of any scene really has to be the PC's involved.

Now frankly if an imperial storm trooper showed in the Rebel Outpost on Rori and was RP'ing contra band scans of people coming and going, I would tend to ignore the fact that I'm in a rebel outpost and play along. Because the PC is the primary driver of RP and it's much more immersive to ignore non-controlling factors such as location and NPC's then it is PC's.

The GCW in PvP and Cannon in SWG in general in my opinion are outside of the scope of this thread. This is just if certain circumstances take place, this would be a good way to handle it type guide. And I think it's an excellent representation of that.

So as you've already started a Cannon thread that's a better place for that, and all the GCW related PvP scene discussion could probably all be split into a seperate thread where the community can take a stab at resolving some of those issues. I just think it's important that we get back on topic with this thread, and in my opinion make a determination if we as a community feel that these do constitute good manners. I for one do and will act in accordance with them.

I just hate to see this idea fall by the way side due to lack of interest because of lack of progress when the original idea's presented here I feel have been ironed out but the thread has taken twists and turns bluring the original objective and complicating it giving the apperance of no progress being made.

[Ekade]

I agree completely with Hasum. We can and should consider RPvP encounters and the "reality" of canon, GCW, etc. as seperate issues.

Sure those things should be considered, but I am starting to see perceived "reality" as an unsolvable problem. As such, lets put that aside and work on the solvable problems.

Keeping things simple helps us get things done.

[Hashum]

I agree completely with Hasum. We can and should consider RPvP encounters and the "reality" of canon, GCW, etc. as seperate issues.

Sure those things should be considered, but I am starting to see perceived "reality" as an unsolvable problem. As such, lets put that aside and work on the solvable problems.

Keeping things simple helps us get things done.

Exactly. Keep it simple.

[Hashum]

Think this needs a /bump, and maybe a sticky somewhere.

[E-bo Obi]

Best I can do is move it here for ya. Talk to an admin if you want a sticky.

=)

[Dwilah]

I'd also like to refer people to the RP Guidelines. I believe many of these debates were discussed and condensed from Toront's original model to "handy tips" by many of the same people that participated in this thread.

The guide can be found here:

http://swgtales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5598

Look under "**Player vs. Player Combat in Role Play**, it is the fourth heading down.